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FanFiction Website Status HistoryThe above graph displays service status activity for Fanfiction.net over the last 10 automatic checks. The blue bar displays the response time, which is better when smaller. If no bar is displayed for a specific time it means that the service was down and the site was offline.
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DateTimePing Time&DateTimePing Time16.Nov.2015 01:04222.38 ms.&16.Nov.2015 03:14262.79 ms.16.Nov.2015 05:15226.28 ms.&16.Nov.2015 07:26219.51 ms.16.Nov.2015 09:30218.05 ms.&16.Nov.2015 11:36221.57 ms.16.Nov.2015 13:36223.54 ms.&16.Nov.2015 15:37221.6 ms.16.Nov.2015 17:49223.85 ms.&16.Nov.2015 19:54325.25 ms.&
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Having Problems with Accessing Fanfiction.net?
▼ LAST 30 DAYS ...
& Chrome 46.0 on Windows
I have no problem getting into the regular fan fiction. For the past couple of days, I haven't been able to get into the fan fiction nascar web site. When I've attempted to go into the website there is a picture of Tony Stewart and Dale Earnhardt Jr with a message of error on it.
& Safari 9.0 on iPad
Ugh fanfiction.net isn't working! Right in the middle of several good stories too. So upsetting my escape from reality right now blah!
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
I can't upload image and file. Really sucks.
▼ LAST 6 MONTHS ...
& Opera Next 32.0.1948.69 on Windows
QUICK WHILE ITS STILL UP MOVE THE STORY TAB AND MAKE A COPY OF THE TAB AND GO THE NEXT CHAPTER UNTIL THE LAST ONE FAST!
& Chrome 28.0 on Android
Does anyone else notice that it feels like it only goes down right when your about to start a massive reading binge?
& Chrome 45.0 on Windows
Come on fanfiction get this fixed. I was in the middle of reading 1 fanfiction when I could not get that next chapter. Hurry up and get this back up and running. From my understanding fanfiction is out for everyone. Get it to back up and running quickly, you have some very ticked off readers. I'm being nice for now, I will not be I have to make another comment later. So, get this problem resolved very soon.
& Chrome 45.0 on Windows
Fanfiction.net been crashing a lot lately. If you're reading a good fic, try searching it on ao3. Many authors repost their stuff on there.
& Opera Next 32.0.1948.69 on Windows
just to let you guys know I did the most educated guess I could with what ive got which is thunderstorms, my interent access going from 4 & 5 bars down to 1-3 bars so ya again educated guess
& Firefox 39.0 on Windows
So annoying. Usually seems to happen when I find something good to read. Hope it comes back up soon.
& Safari 9.0 on iPhone
fan fiction.net needs to get their crap together bc this is the only website that lets me get away from my family at night
& Chrome 41.0 on Windows
I've seen comments from people who say that this always happens. Does it happen for long period of time, or is it usually just an hour. Ugh. I'm trying to finish up this amazing fic, and I can't get through it. wtf
& Safari 8.0 on iPhone
Stephan Dawson that's hilarious, but this is ridiculous. I was going to edit a particular forum post to free up one of my oc's for interactions with other characters and now I can't.
& Android Browser 4.0 on Android
Well was reading a story but could not read next chapter. No storms or bad weather. But I can access previous chapters I read.
& Chrome 42.0 on Windows
If it helps anyone, as far as writing goes, google docs is a very good way to keep an active edit going
& Opera Next 32.0.1948.69 on Windows
@Dawn Nottingham there are thunderstorms happening right now in Southern Cali (not sure about the mid and upper thou)
& Chrome 46.0 on Windows
I was reading a good story I found in the Miss Potter community and Fanfiction.net just had to stop responding. Fix your serves to keep it from going down all the time! ):
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
I've been keeping track of when it goes down, and I have noticed a trend. Every time it comes back up, there are a load of fics that have been pulled. I think that is what they are doing. I don't know if anyone else have picked up on that.
& Safari 8.0 on iPhone
I was trying to edit some forum posts for a game of thrones rp and now I can't cause it's down again.
& Safari 8.0 on iPad
Wanted to check my fic Elijah's Petrova for errors and wasn't able to get on hopefully it won't be down long
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
I can access the site, but when I try to upload a document to my account so I can post it, it won't load. It just sits there and then claims it can't connect.
& Android Browser 4.0 on Android
Just took in hour break from reading and now i cant go to next chapter cause it wont let me. This is aways annoying.
& Silk 3.68 on Kindle Fire
Well..seems everything is working..though haven't posted..yet..will soon..Anyone welcome to give an opinion on my story 'Return to Love' by jacks Marie.
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
I copy and paste because my main computer is a Mac which doesn't have microsoft office ... I had to pull and completely redo a chapter because it was full of gobbledegook which I CERTAINLY did not write. the gobbledegook was in between the paragraphs of my chapter... more than likely some kind of computer code but my knowledge of that kind of thing is negliglble at best. I pulled the entire chapter and took the junk out. Actually, since the story I was writing was not popular I pulled it. Once I finish when Doves Cry I will finish writing the other story and repost it
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
I decided I'm going to type out all the chapters of When Doves Cry, edit them on my other computer (it has Microsoft offfice and this one doesn't) and then when I have written and edited the entire story I am going to post it, completed.
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
I do. I also don't think guests should be allowed to leave reviews... (mainly because the kind of guest reviews I get are arrogant and rude.)
& Safari 8.0 on iPad
Yeah I know the feeling, my newest novel is reaching more then 100,000 thousand words and going to be the size of two Stephen novels put together, but just getting the latest chapter finished is beginning to test my patience here.
& Silk 3.68 on Kindle Fire
Lucky or not ..not ready to post for a few days yet,as my chapterys are 6000+ sometimes,hope this is sorted before then.Sometimes my chapter as parts missing when I post..Anyone else think The doc manager is craps!??
& Firefox 40.0 on Windows
Same place as you - US Eastern Standard - Stats were up yesterday and could post a chapter, though was missing 8 days and numbers looked wonky. Now back to the error message and no stats. Can I post? I'll find out in a couple days....
& Firefox 40.0 on Windows
Yeah, my traffic stats are down (again) and when I did get to look at them, they were incredibly wrong!
& Silk 3.68 on Kindle Fire
Another three hours! Traffic stats still the same! Don't think they were accurate either..when they came back for a time yesterday.I usually have more views than that..comments anyone??
& Chrome 45.0 on Windows
Yeah same, they posted that they are working on fixing what's wrong. My guess is that they fired a few people this summer and have yet to hire someone who can fix the crap. LOL
& Chrome 45.0 on Windows
Traffic stats are down again, they were up for like two hours. Everything else is working for me though.
& Firefox 40.0 on Mac
I managed to see my traffic stats once before it went back to displaying the error message. What is going on?
& Safari 8.0 on iPad
Stats were back up last night although I had eight days worth missing. But ho hum back to the original problem again this morning with an error message on the stats page. Disappointed
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
I can see my traffic stats, but I don't think they're accurate. Usually I have more views than what's been showing up. I think perhaps they're still working on that part of the site.
& Silk 3.68 on Kindle Fire
Still no traffic stats at 6.30am here UK time.Had them for a few hours yesterday,but is now showing error message like as done since 23/08/15' seems few in same boat!?
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
No, it's doing that to me as well -_-' I thought it fixed itself yesturday but I suppose Fanfiction isn't finished fixing all it's bugs *sighs*
& Internet Explorer 11.0 on Windows
Is it just me or is anyone else having trouble seeing their traffic graph. For me I keep getting N/A and an type 1 error message when ever a click to see my traffic graph.
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
I don't know. I haven't tried creating any new stories today, just updating an older one. I don't use the upload feature, though. I use copy and paste instead. And that seems to be working fine. I could use the bold and italic feature without any problems.
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Anyone else having trouble getting new story documents to look right? I'm using odt files and yet there is no support of italics and bold, and all my freaking spaces between paragraphs keep dissapearing!
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
I haven't had any problems since the site started working again this morning. I can post on forums, and I updated one of my stories without any problems.
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
24 hours is a very long maintenance cycle. And power outages are no excuse, I'm from freaking India and servers here have backup to last several days. It's called generators (sarcastic), and if the land of the free doesn't have those, then that's a little sad.
Also, if they need help with funding, they should just ask. If every one of us gave a dollar, they would have a lot of money.
If they needed help with coding, they should just ask, I'm sure there are a lot of talented PHP scripters and back-end coders on FF.net. (Personally I do C coding, along with XML and VB.net)
Also, notice would help people. While I understand that sometimes things crash for no reason, just a little reassurance that it's being worked on helps.
& Safari 7.0 on iPhone
From the official press release:
"There are literally thousands of individual parts that make up the eco-system that powers the site and we will spend the next few weeks upgrading every single area to ensure our users get the best experience."
A FEW WEEKS!?!? WTF MAN!!!
& Internet Explorer 11.0 on Windows
Uploaded the story? Check. Uploaded the cover? Check. Posted the story? Fail.
damn it... so close...
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Grrrrrrr... So freaking disappointing to go to log in last night to find out I couldn't.... I got on today to happily see I can log in. I'm in okay, just finshed a chapter and go to submit it and it's DOWN AGAIN!! -_-
& Safari 8.0 on iPad
Just when I thought it was up for the day... It crashes yet again. Such joy in this website right now :P
& Chrome 44.0 on Chrome OS
What is with fanfiction going down so much lately? I really need to upload a chapter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
David Peddle boycott and bombard.... boycott the site and bombard the ff.net twitter account till something was done!
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
I had a feeling that the power outtage issue wasn't an issue here... because if it was don't you think the website wouldn't come up at all instead of allowing us to read stories but not comment or follow or log in or out?
& AppleWebKit 600.1.4 on iPad
I hope FF doesn't think they' they haven't. Whooppee, I thought. I can at last publish my story. Choose the category. Choose the programme (endless scrolling now) - then it won't let you get to the next step. Frustrating.
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
Harry Potter stories
A Question of Upbringing
History Repeating
The Beginning
Veritaserum Aftershocks
WWE/Murder She Wrote Stories
The Unforgivable
When Doves Cry
feel free to read, don't feel obliged to review :)
& Silk 3.68 on Kindle Fire
Thank God for that..Perhaps I can get some writing done,instead of checking to see,if site is up every five minutes.Only thing is I've lost five days,of sats.
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
ok what's going on? I managed to post the WWE Murder She Wrote crossover (When Doves Cry) but I can't seem to post anything in Harry Potter?
& Safari 8.0.7 on Mac
that's great. I went onto the blog and posted the following comment. thanks for the update. would you mind keeping us informed of when the updates will take place so that if the site goes down (when they are doing maintenance) people will know in advance? that would be much appreciated.
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
They finally updated their news. They say they want to make sure that "these type of errors are not only fixed at their roots but add preventive measure to ensure they do not repeat."
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
Fan fic may be back up , but a weeks worth of stats are missing and all the reviews I submitted during the days before it crashed completely are nowhere to be found. I had things to say about the stories I read , but how am I supposed to remember several days later ...... they'd better be retrievable ..... and where is the explanation and/or apology ?
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Stats are also up now. I can see the people who looked at my stuff as clear as day now unlike the past 2 weeks before the crash.
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
hey you say your a mlp fic writer? would you mind checking my story out?
CleverGoblin - ShadowShard
im still a novice keep that in mind...
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
Of course they didn't. They never tell us anything. It's just whoops, the site went down, good luck with that.
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
If it crashes again I have my stories posted on another site, so I can copy, paste and repost if the site goes down and eats my update.
So far everything is doing fine. It feels good to be back posting on the HP challenge forum again.
& Safari 600.1.4 on iPhone
It's up but give it maybe an hour to catch up. People are going to be logging back in like crazy and mess up the server. Would not upload anything for a little while in case of a crash.
& Chrome 40.0 on Android
I made a Facebook account just to join this discussion XD
FanFiction name: scrumptiousinternetllama
Fics: One called Experience. It's a Harry Potter fic which involves Snamione and Umbridge, (can't stand her). Though Joe Walker is amazing at playing her in A Very Potter Musical XD. It's my first fic and it's a multi chapter story that is in progress. It has gotten an amazing response so I'm an incredibly happy person right now :)
& Opera Next 31.0. on Windows
ok so heres what I think is going to happen in the next 30 mins "I'm putting a new story up ... WTF IT CRASHED AGAIN?! WHY?! ... omg a massive amount of updates and new stories"
& Firefox 37.0 on Windows
And of course it's up when I'm going to sleep... And simply am unable to stay awake any longer. =____= It better still be up tomorrow.......
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
I can't access my account and I need to get in contact with a writter and it's on my phone so I dunno what to do someone heeelllppp
& Firefox 37.0 on Windows
@Hokee Bennett
Last one and then I'll go to sleep (6pm now. Hopefully late enough so I won't wake up at 1am again). So I won't most likely find your reply anymore if you do reply in here. Yeah, see you "on the other side" then. ;)
Haha. Figured as much.
It most certainly is. Of course as long as those writing the story are good, the very universe of crime stories is so rich and full of possibilities. More than most other genres. If for no other reason then just look at all those cases the main character(s) work with. So many different stories to tell. And no matter how overdone, the best ones of all: People wanting revenge and having a nemesis etc... Can't forget the whump and being a badass.
It makes me sad to know how so many amazing generation of new writers won't get to share their talents in favor of the less... um... less talented ones. I'm putting it nicely. I can't help but wonder if just like in regular world right now where in this economy it's who you know that gets you the job, that it works the same way in that world as well...
I adore the relationship between the brothers on Numb3rs and in my opinion it didn't have enough of all the things they could've done with the series... Yet still it's (in my opinion) one of the best ones out there... And I actually have one couple I ship really hard, which is rare since I don't do much shipping anymore (bromance > romance, anyday)... And it's neither one of the brothers with their women.
Yeah. And since the made up worlds and lives are so fun, real world and life seem kind of...bland in comparison, if you know what I mean. And I'm saying that as someone whose entire life since birth has been a real life TV/movie drama and soap opera.
Oh, we are all improving and so will you. Believe me, I still have many things I wish to later go back and fix (thankfully mostly typos, but still). I started with short stories and poems as a kid when I thought I hated writing (school made me think that), then for almost ten years I wrote roleplays almost daily. I learned so much from that... Thankfully it also helped weeding out any mary sue characters I might have otherwise started creating... And through that I learned how to make characters that actually are proper characters. I'd never go back to all that now, but it was good experience. Now I use fanfics as another form of teaching tool for myself. Funny how things like these work... Next thing I'd like to try is technical writing, however boring that may be. But it should also be really good learning tool for a writer. Maybe I'll even try finding a job where I can do that or something... We'll see... And weird it is, but somehow things like this happens once in a while.
I kind of blame several people in my life for my "muteness". Already shy child, certain actions from too many people during the years stripped me off of any confidence in actually speaking out or wanting to even bother with that. On the other hand when I get close to someone, I can talk their ears off and at worst talk so fast they can't even follow... XD
Hah. Sure thing. I took a screenshot of that so I'll remember. Anyway. Good night/morning!
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Thank God my documents are in there and still safe, I'm going to take my frying pan and knock someone out >:(
& Internet Explorer 11.0 on Windows
So it should be back by the time i get back from work tonight. Awesome cause i have an idea for a oneshot though it figures that it always goes down when i have a day off.
Kitten1313
& Internet Explorer 11.0 on Windows
NEVER MIND IT'S DOWN AGAIN, ANYONE ELSE WANT TO FIND THE ASSHOLES WHO WORK ON THIS SITE AND JUST BEAT THE HELL OUT OF THEM OR IS IT JUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
No,wait, now it stopped working again. It seems like its going back and forth and they're still trying to straighten things out. Shouldn't be much longer though.
& Firefox 38.0 on Windows
Claudio: You're welcome!
Jeanne: I've been trying to find their server locations, but could only trace them to Virginia. The dev however is said to live in LA, so I guess there is a good chance they have an office there.
& Safari 8.0 on iPhone
This is actually pissing me off, either it works or it doesn't. Don't tell us it works when it doesn't. Half a second don't count.
& Internet Explorer 11.0 on Windows
I know! They should at least have put up on the main page an announcement saying that the site is down but they're working on it!
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Right, I'm not too bothered about not getting to log in because I usually just write on 'Word' first before updating on the fanfiction.net.
Oh, and imagine an incident where the lights went out during Finland's winter where it gets dark at 1-2 pm and you literally walk straight into a wall trying to find a flashlight.
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
I can access my account again, but right now the forums aren't working yet. Still can't post replies, but that'll probably be fixed in a few minutes.
& Firefox 40.0 on Android
Outage Alert Note 718028
Restoration ETA Most up by September 2,
Last Updated September 2,
Start Time September 1,
Customers Impacted 12
Cause Metallic Balloons in Equipment
Crew Status We have identified the problem and are working to restore your service.
& Chrome 44.0 on Mac
It's just the account servers that are down, that is the only part of the site that is barely functional...
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Where is the "power outage" rumor coming from? Did it start from someone wih actual knowledge of what's going on at FFN? Or pure speculation?
The only information available to us that I can see says "under maintenance."
FFN's issues have been going on since two weekends ago.
& Safari 8.0 on iPhone
It's just par for the course, really. I've been on FFN long enough that I'm used to it by now. A few years ago there was a similar problem that made it impossible for people to log into their accounts for days. Every once in a while you could log in for an hour or two, or for just a couple minutes at a time, but the log in part was down for about five days if I remember correctly.
& Android Browser 4.0 on Android
I, m spyrofan34 and I over 1000 storys on favorite s and this crap happens you know if this shit goes past a week I, m going to be pissed off
& Firefox 38.0 on Windows
@Claudio: Use Editor/Word/LOW or something to write it, save it on your PC and upload it once the site is back up
& Chrome 44.0 on Mac
Any links and actions that eventually lead to your profile is malfunctioning. We just have to wait if you favorited some stories.
& Firefox 40.0 on Windows
well FFN is down and I'm trying AO3 might stay there based on what I'm seeing so far pen name on FFN and prolly AO3 Veemonfan683...
fandoms: digimon, stagate SG1/SG:A
& Chrome 34.0 on Android
Lesson learned: Make sure to always do work on Word, before C&P on the website... I swear, this was just terrible... Been ~27 hours since the outages for me.And I was in the middle of writing 3 fanfics!!
Seriously, though. You guys should probably send us a prompt, through the browsers, or at least type something in that little side box of twitter tweets. The front page of the website was working when the outages happened, after all.
& Chrome 44.0 on Mac
Avalonia Crux, I will be willing to read your stories, send me the name of your fiction. Mine is: New Beginnings
& Firefox 40.0 on Android
I garentee this is the last time the power company decides to upgrade equipment and what not SCE wihhout telling its costomers
& Silk 44.1.81 on Kindle Fire
Might as well get cracking on new chapters. If you're a ff writer, this should be a good time to get ahead. I'm also open to looking at other people's fanfics, if ya wanna write them down for me. (Plus I'd be happy if I had viewers read mine and see where I could improve on or such)
-AUselessMicroFluff
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
What is the basis for saying FFN's issues are a power outage? Pure speculation? This site says FFN is "under maintenance."
& Firefox 37.0 on Android
I'm Undead Prowess on fanfiction, and I typically write Five Nights at Freddy's, Skylanders, KND, and a few other random fanfictions. I have updates planned after a long period of writers block, and this happens.... ._.
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
Guys I have a question...I want to make a new chapter for my fanfic..but as you cansee, fanfiction is shutdown where can I write my fanficitions, so I can make some progress? Cheers!
& Firefox 38.0 on Windows
@Kiana: I, too, can code. What exactly do you mean by changing the URL?
Kelvin: Sorry for calling you Kevin, bro :D
& Chrome 30.0 on Android
I was in hopes the site would be working again by morning. Guess it's still out to lunch.
@Samantha That's what I'm doing is working on my stories right now. Might as well make the most of my time while I can't access the site.
& Safari 8.0 on iPhone
Mecie we clearly want to do more than just view the site and how can you read the stories you have favorited when you can't log in?
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
@Leo Chris
LOL that does explain a few things! I know ima stop checking for a while, so I can continue writing, reading and uploading. Once the servers come back up, Ill be sure to message you through ff.net
Good to know! Im sure ill be busy for the next 5 hours at least. So thank you for letting me know! "Plenty of angst and cuteness and papabear Gibbs..." Just what I want to hear!
I think it has to do with my goldfish like memory! XD That it is! Its the whole chicken dinner! I get that, truly I do! (Im obsessed with Detective Conan, and so is my sister! XD) Im a crime junkie at heart as well. So much can happen in the span of solving that one crime, leaving it indented on your mind and heart for days, weeks, even years. And theres so many out there, Psych, Criminal minds, Glades, Law and Order (all of them, specifically love SVU), etc ya get the point. Its a good genre to start out in!
Iv'e picked up on that trend as well. I guess TV just insn't wanting to deal with that type or route, even tho their own series is darkly themed in a way. But I guess thats the way it has to be, we'd either have to find it in a fanfic, write it ourselves, or just move on and have to deal with it, as they continue to throw more and more amazing characters under the bus, to keep the show from losing views/ratings.
This is true! NCIS, does have alot more than other series. Its actually one of the higher amount in the TV catagory on FF.net. Yeah once a series ends, it seems the fanfiction fandom kinda dies with it. I can tack on Psych to your Numb3rs, theyre in the same boat. Seems like the only way for it to continue is if I write for it, or random others who are still with the fandom.
I get that train of thought (the creating a world and losing yourself) as I do that as well, but I add on that when its still fresh in my head, I tend to bullet point major events or something that catches my fancy, to flesh it out more later. Aww, it sounds like a nice place to go to to relax for awhile..
Im still in the process of getting better, I havent wrote for a good couple months, and when I did, it was my own OC type thing where it wasnt attached to a previous fandom, so its weird going back to fandom writing. Hopefully I have improved, but I dont really have any newer fics to compare the old ones to, at least not just yet! XD (NCIS one in process now, in fact second chapter is almost done!) That it is! Its so weird to have just randomly bump into someone like this. Ah well, my brain will hopefully get over the shock in a few hours, when I get lost in your stories! :)
Oh wow! I talk all the time in RL, so its kinda hard to talk through text, since I doubt everything I try to say, or write. I think thats why I tend to stay in those genres as well. Lets me escape out of my own mind for awhile to anothers where Im not the one having to deal with it. Ah well, just rambling on now! XD You go catch some shut eye!
If you want to keep talking and whatnot, my penname is Ninjapirate101 (for both AO3 and FF) so when you get spammed with favorites, follows, and reviews, etc dont be alarmed! XD Its only me~
& Firefox 40.0 on Android
@kiana i have i am a computer programer
Everyone else the power outage affecting the site is also affecting my home last time i called the power conpany they told me 10:00 its been out since 6:00am yesterday
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
can't take it anymore. what the hell? fanfic is down for almost 22 hours. when the hell it is coming back?
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
I'm working on my own stories. If you are a writer, instead of complaining, try getting ahead with your stories. That way, you'll have very happy readers when the site goes back up.
& Chrome 38.0 on Android
If it doesn't come back up. I will keep on writing my chapters until it's back. I'm on my MLP fic and I would be happy enough to just post my chapters than just use my time to write them and not get them updated.
& Chrome 44.0 on Windows
@Kelvin Callaghan, I will not be in the least bit surprised if the overload ends up being so HUGE that the server will do what
server did in June 2007 (after the Benoit thing) and blow up!
to the rest of you:
I know people are annoyed...I am too. Worst case scenario we could end up being stuck like this for a week or more... so what do you say that instead of overloading the server, if this mess goes on for more than a week, we ALL bombard the ff.net twitter AND boycott the site? A week is MORE than fair
& Chrome 44.0 on Android
While the site has been down I'm now three chapters ahead on all my fanfics. I suggest you all do the same and stop complaining
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