Tank on Empty: Don't use your reserve fuel, it protects your pump
Don'T Use Your Reserve Fuel, It Protects Your Pump
8, 2007 about
i am a 16 year master auto mechanic,and i do not recomend constantly running any vehicle with an electric fuel pump low on fuel.
most vehicles with an electric fuel pump,have the pump submerged in the fuel inside the tank.the purpose of this is to cool,and lubricate the pump.
the reserve fuel is there to keep the pump from selfdestructing from overheating.although some vehicles have a well that the pump sits inside of,this type of pump is a modular unit,and if the well runs dry the pump could be dammaged.theese types of pumps cost close to 1000 dollars to have repaired.
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That's a great point - be careful not to screw up your fuel pump!
This is so true !
My girlfriend just replaced the fuel pump on her 1999 Ford Taurus last Monday, January 7 2008, do to running on empty numerous times.
Typical woman, lol
I did not know about burn however, I have heard that running on the reserve can allow &junk& in your gas tank to plug up the pump and/or injectors. Is this true? I usually fill up way before it would be crisis time!
This story is TRUE! I work at a Ford dealership and have seen this MANY times.
I am a mechanic as well. This is true we replace fuel pumps regularly. We ask the customers about the fuel pumps and many claim they run low all the time.At 500 to 1000 to replace its better to run more fuel in the tank
I've been an ASE {Automotive Service Excellence} nationally certified Master Technician for over 20 years. It IS a good Idea not to run run your fuel tank dry. It's also a good idea not to fill up right after a tanker has dumped a load of gas into the holding tank where you fill up. This stirs up all the debris accumulated in the holding tank for many hours after it is unloaded and can lead up to clogged fuel fllters and extra dirt/debris being pumped into your gas tank.
A new fuel pump does not cost $1000, you can pick up a 500hp Walbro or Bosch fuel pump for less than NZ$300, both of which are much better than the factory fuel pump found in most cars.
My son is a mechanic and constantly stressing this point yet I still let it go to low.
Pumping gas is not a favorite thing of mine!
A. Non: Add in the cost of labor charges.
I can attest to this. Ran my '90 Firebird empty on the way to get it filled for the 1st time (been sitting for a long time, came to me, I repaired it). Though I only tossed 2 gallons in it at that moment, the next time I gave it a good tank, the car has developed a lovely bit of fuel pressure issues. I would bet the 257k miles on it, and running it empty did the pump no good.
New fuel pump is around US$90
Get a service manual or guide
Raise car, drop fuel tank and/or remove retaining ring from pump assembly, replace pump, replace assembly.
But finding a lift to use yourself may be an issue.
That's where the labor charges get to be a pain.
Not all fuel pumps are available as a separate pump.
Most, in fact are not, and are only sold as an assembly, which will cost between $250-$500.
Also, 99% of us will never use a lift, or have access to one.
The cheapest lift I've ever sold was $3500.00, and I didn't make any money on it [I work in auto parts].
The tanks that are in the ground at gas stations pump from near the bottom. That means anything that settles to the bottom could get sucked out anytime, regardless of wether they are refueling or not. Actually, if there was sediment settled on the bottom you may get cleaner gas while the tanker is filling it because any sediment would probably be stirred up in the tank instead of sitting on the bottom concentrated in one place waiting to get sucked out. Nonethelss gas station pumps also have multiple filters at various stages of the pumping process so getting large debris in your gas is unlikely anyways.
He's right. Some fuel pumps can run $700-$1,000 as an assembly. Fewer cars are built with old-school sensibility these days.
I would have loved to know this back when I had a Saab - I replaced the fuel pump 3 times in 4 months...
The only people that have to worry about this kind of stuff is the owners of older cars. Most cars built in the past 10 years have the well that the pump is held in. The return fuel is sent into the well and that cools the pump. It only holds about a quart of fuel so you have to run your car completly out of fuel to hurt it. Most fuel injected fuel systems will run the pump for 2 seconds to pressurize the fuel system prior to start up, then shut it off till it reads oil pressure. When you lose oil pressure, the pump will shut off to protect it. If you run your car completly out of fuel and constantly try to start it, you will slowly damage the pump. Every time you try to start the car after, you are running it for the 2 seconds, then again as your cranking the engine. If you know your out of gas, dont try to start it - just get some more fuel in the tank.
Most pumps can also be found for about $200-$400 - if your paying more than that, shop around. Dealership parts are ALWAYS overpriced and most aftermarket pumps will have a better warrantee than OEM. Be smart about it and you will get by without too much cost. Many cars are being built with an access port for the pump so you dont even have to drop the tank. I recently did a 99 Mercury Mystique pump... it took less than an hour to replace it - most of that was trying to get the old retaining ring off.
the price of a pump does not matter. anyone too lazey to fill their tank when it nears empty is unlikely to be the type to go out and replace their own fuel pump.
Its absolutely true about burning out the fuel pump when running out of fuel. My grandaughter driving her 1998 Sunfire which only had about 80,000 Kilometers on it,ran out of fuel and had to get the fuel pump changed.
The fuel in the tank may provide cooling for the electric pump but it sure does not &lubricate& it in any way. Gasoline is a solvent not a lubricant and any lubricants introduced into the gas are dissolved to the point of uselessness. Electric fuel pumps are sealed to prevent the working parts from exposure to gasoline- the gas goes on the inside of the pump for a reason.
um been a mechanic for a few years and sort of learnt that yeah a dry pump will fail but also a dry pump sort of stops the engine. remember a engine needs fuel. when it stalls on modern cars the pump stops. anyway good sight and on the weekend ill bring a jerry can in the boot and drive cramer style with the dim glow of a fuel light.
Ford engineering for ya.
I didn't need access to a lift or anything when I changed out the fuel pump and gas tank in my car. Albeit it's a smaller vehicle (93 Chevy Lumina) and it's a tad time consuming to do, it really wasn't all that difficult. The fuel pump itself only cost me about 80 bucks, and I installed it by myself (easy, as long as you pay attention to how it's installed in the first place).
SUMMARY OF MPG-CAPS?,,? TEST
CONDUCTED 10-29-2007 THRU 10-31-2007
The test engine used wasGM with a bore of 4.07 inches and stroke of 3.66 inches and displacement of 380 inches . This engine is normally used in the larger SUV vehicles and many other applications. The tests were conducted with the engine running at 2000 rpm with a resistance of 125 ft/lbs torque . This steady load simulates a large SUV traveling at 80 mph .
A baseline test was conducted using 20 gallons of fuel . We used a cylindrical tank with a sight glass on the side . Strapping of the tank calculated to contain.47 gallons per inch. We were able to make very precise measurements of fuel at 20 minute intervals . We ran the baseline test for 5 hours and burned 42 inches of fuel which calculated to be 19.74 gallons .
We conducted a conditioning run of 20 gallons and ran exactly 42 inches in 5 hours which also calculated to be 19.74 gallons . We used ? 1/2
grams of product during this run.
We then conducted a treated run using ? 1/2
grams in 20 gallons . During the first 4 hours we did not see any reduction in fuel consumption . During the last hour we saw a reduction of 9/16 of an inch in reduced fuel consumption.
Due to the reduction we saw in the last hour we decided we had not completed the conditioning run in the original 5 hours. We had reserved enough time to run an additional 2.5 hours or a 10 gallon run. 10 gallons is a total of 21.27 inches in the tank.
During the final 2.5 hour run we saw little change in the fuel consumption during the first hour but during the last one and one half hours we saw fuel consumption decrease as much as 19% ( see the calculations on the data sheets )
The overall average of the product runs was over 6% lower however the 19% decrease in consumption during the last one and one half hours of the run indicated that a continued run would have shown 15% or more savings.
The operator on this test was Terry Gray acting as an independent consultant. He is retired from Southwest Labs and ran this test within the EPA guidelines but not to a specific test requirement. The purpose of the test was to show fuel economy with the use of the FFI product.
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Even if it only cost $80. That's still $80, and what are you gaining by running your tank dry? Nothing. Maybe this website is run by a fuel pump manufacturer???
To say it cost 1000.00 for a fuel pump would depend on the car, and how large the jar of vaseline is that you get with the job. A lot of people are just out to make a buck these days. What comes around goes around. I hope they run out of tiolet paper.
You don't really need a lift to change out the fuel pump/fuel pump assembly. About a year or two ago I changed the pump assembly out on my 2001 Impala with the assistance of my ASE Certified father who has worked as a mechanic for LA City Fire and Arizona Dept of Transportation for almost 30 years. We jacked the car up and put it on jack stands in my parents' driveway. Then used a jack with a metal plate welded to it to help keep the tank steady as we lowered it out of the car to get at the assembly. The tank still had like a half a tank in it and I couldn't tell how low it really was because my fuel gauge was reading wrong. If you get the chance and would like to do it this way I'd suggest doing this with a lot less fuel in the tank.
I regularly run the gas level way down on my 1988 Honda CRX Si (which has no low fuel light) and after 20 years and 389,000 miles I'm still running with the original fuel pump.
When I fill up I usually have .5 - 1.5 gallons left in the 11.9 gallon tank.
I invented the modern fuel pump back in my early years, and I have to agree with the original poster. The reserve is there for only emergency usage, and it's a good idea to fill up the gas as soon as you see the fuel low light.
So the poor are screwed either way.
Wow, I cant believe that there at that many car manufacturers that screw you over with needing to drop the gas tank to replace a pump.
In my old beater '84 BMW you had to pop out the rear seat(2 bolts), remove the access panel(3 bolts) and then you had direct access to the pump(4 bolts and 2 hoses).
Install was the reverse of assembly, no lift or even jack required, all done in 15 min and the pump was a bit over 100USD from the dealer.
Also, the pump in that car was not cooled by the fuel in the tank(though may have been cooled by the return line, as the motor sat at the top of the tank with a pickup that sat at the bottom, and it was certianly not in a well.
I've seen the pumps for newer BMW's(my dads 7-series and my '98 3-series) and they are both the same basic setup with the motor at the top and the pickup at the base.
I dont know if the access to them is the same on my car, but it is the same on my fathers.
Great info! Screwed up and let my beautiful Honda Civic suffer the low fuel/burn up your fuel pump fate. She's back up and running thanks to this site telling me what was wrong before I even let a mechanic look at her. Which, probably would have costs me loads of cash!
I have nothing to add.
In over 20 years of running every car I have ever owned to near empty I have never had to replace a single fuel pump.
I think some of you are confusing running the tank low with actually running out of gas.
I have never once run out of gas.
I also agree with this, and never let my car get below a quarter of a tank (above E).
One 90+ degree day in the summer I was driving my stepdad's minivan from PA to ME and it conked out on the side of the highway with about an eighth of a tank - it turns out the fuel pump got overheated and stopped functioning.
Fortunately we let it cool down and were able to get to a gas station, but it taught me a valuable lesson!
about a month ago my car started having trouble starting after filling the tank. if i run the tank low, the car will take a while to start. its directly related to filling it up after running a tank low. once started it runs and idles completely fine, any ideas what could be causing this? could it be something with 10% ethanol fuel?
I hate fuel pumps.
A fuel pump fell on my best friends head and now he is a vegetable.
Topic creator you are correct about the fuel pump dying from this, however this is over a large life span and does not happen right away. This seems to happen with more American cars then imports. The fuel pump does not use the fuel as luberication either.
It just uses it as cooling it down by running thoughout the vains of the pump. Remember it is an electronic pump. Fuel would not have enough lubrcation properties to fully lube the device. The fuel also sits out on the case to help cool it as well.
BTW. Just wondering. I don't think you are a ASE master mechanic because that takes years to complete. Not to mention you need 5+ years of school and you need to take a lot of tests. And it is expensive. The youngest master I have seen is like 22.
Hi I don't know who you are but I was wondering if you could help me .You see I'm having trouble when I pump gas at the gas station the pump stops even when the gas tank is empty and I was wondering why? is there something wrong with gas tank could you please give me an answer
THANK YOU,
Fuel pumps are delicious!
I eat them like hot dogs.
I put mustard right on them and gobble them up!
A.Tech, I believe the topic creator meant that he has been a master mechanic for 16 years, not that he is 16 years old.
screw all u anti-low fuel guys.if your pump wants to check out it will do that even with a full tank.My pal has a Verona 2004 and fills up a lil below half but the pump screwed him big time so just run your cars the way you want and hope it does not break down.End of story.
I believe that every gas station has inline filters on all their pump so you get clean gas everytime.
FUEL PUMPS ARE EVIL.
I agree with billy
Does anyone have any idea how big the reserve fuel tank is on a 1996 Nissan 200SX SE that has a 13.2 gallon fuel tank?
You all are DUMB!!!
Stop fucking up good information by posting stupid comments.
I've been driving my car for over 10,000 miles after the light came on with no problems, you all probably just suck dick at driving.
hi, new to the site, thanks.
I hate pumping gas and have figured out how long I can go on empty before it's really empty.
(yes, I've run out of gas a few times before finding out the sweet spot.)
I also like to keep cars until it's time for the junkyard.
I nearly always pass 200k in my cars.
I've never in my life changed a fuel pump.
Oh, except on my John Deere mower.
Of course, I usually buy Japanese or German cars.
don't worry about having no gas in your car, keep an eye on more important things like your oil
I usually do not fall for snake-oil wonder additives to put in your tank but I have been using Chevron/Texaco gasoline with Techron for several years and it works!
Or pour a bottle of Techron additive in your favorite brand of gasoline. Techron lubes electric fuel pumps and keeps injectors clean. Any owner of a 1992 - 1995 Chevy S10 Blazer with Central Port Fuel injection should especially use fuel with Techron additive. General Motors CPI is failure prone if the fuel is not perfectly clean.
That is why GM got rid of CPI by 1996.
If you have a vehicle with a in-tank fuel pump, never run the tank dry. That is one of the reasons automakers
put a low fuel warning indicator on all modern cars with in-tank fuel pumps the secondary reason it alert absent minded drivers that their fuel tank is nearly empty. Low fuel warning was not as important when cars had mechanical fuel pumps and running out of gas would not hurt one of those devices.
All electric fuel pumps pull the fuel from the bottom of the tank so trying to prevent picking from the bottm of the tank is useless. It'a always pulling the bottom stuff.
A fuel pump is held within its own &bowl& this prevents from running out of fuel on a steep incline should the bottom of the tank go dry. Trucks with long tanks especially.
If in fact the tank is run dry the pump will not over heat. If the enginr RPM drops below a certain number, 400 RPM or so, the PCM will open the fuel pump circut. It cannot run dry long enought to overheat.
Over time the biggest cause for electric fuel pump failure were premature wear of the motor brushes.
Never saw one pump burned up from overheating in all my FoMoCo mechanicing years, 1965 to 2001.
All electric fuel pumps pull the fuel from the bottom of the tank so trying to prevent picking from the bottm of the tank is useless. It'a always pulling the bottom stuff.
A fuel pump is held within its own &bowl& this prevents from running out of fuel on a steep incline should the bottom of the tank go dry. Trucks with long tanks especially.
If in fact the tank is run dry the pump will not over heat. If the enginr RPM drops below a certain number, 400 RPM or so, the PCM will open the fuel pump circut. It cannot run dry long enought to overheat.
Over time the biggest cause for electric fuel pump failure were premature wear of the motor brushes.
Never saw one pump burned up from overheating in all my FoMoCo mechanicing years, 1965 to 2001.
FYI. There is no such thing as a reserve tank. One tank, no partians, no reserve.
My fuel pump just went out in my 2000 rang rover one second it work and the next it didn't it was pritty dry on gas I put sum in and pressure tested.tested it it had pressure but no gas would pump through the line and I think it lost pressure. Any ideas
what do you do to a nissan wingroad when it runs out of gas...do you keep starting?
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thats all tht is how can somthing get hot inside a fuel pump wether ints running on fuems or with fuel in it not getting hot at all you will be best off asking your dealer ship?
Its true.i got ma used toyota and after only few days stalled at the parking.ma experienced mechanic found that the fuel pump was dead.and yes,they sell new ones but they build no pressure to start the car.lucky if you get an expensive but original one.i replaced and all was well in seconds.running on low gas is no good.
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There are more factual statements in John in Chico's post then in this entire article. However, I will give the author a shred of credit for mentioning that &some vehicles have a well& but that &some& should be 'many.' If you want to be taken seriously, at least every other word should be spelled correctly. I would like to know if this article/site is propaganda for or if it is ran by fuel company's. You can tell people who know how to turn a wrench with basic mechanic knowledge from those who don't know a thing about cars, because those who don't find this article useful.
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Ive been driving my 2006 RAV4 until the E light comes on hoping that it will burn up any sediment from the bottom of the tank and will help keep the tank clean. I dont know if it was my stupid idea but I recently learned of the damage of fuel pump being associated with this. Anyone has idea what I should do to keep the tank free from sedimentation? The aftermarket fuel system cleaner might be of any help?
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Wow, anyone can post here! Even pretend mechanics.
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this is a stupid convo, some of you need to go back to school or something, like the post right b4 mine makes no sense, or the one saying they eat fuel pumps with mustard, wow
wow i so knew that a reserve tank wasnt what all my mates said it was.. after all these years.. i decided to look it up and i was right.. will be telling my mates about this.. thanks for the peeps who posted all the great suggestions.. NEWZEALAND FOREVER..
so the bottom line is my car ran out of fuel but it started when i
put in a litre of gas. i went to a gas station an hour later filled up the tank, drove 10 kilometers (6 miles) during which i parked
and restarted the car. then i started the car again the following morning. the third time it went a few yards and stalled. couldnt start it again. the battery's fine. has the fuel pump gone? if so how come the car started three times after i refilled the tank? I'd like to know the bottom line before I give the car over to a mechanic. many thanks in anticipation
My fuel pump died intermittently.
I thought the coil or module was going bad because it appeared to be heat related since I could drive a short distance before it quit running and then start it and drive some more after it cooled.
I put a new Bosch pump in and it's been working great for over a year!
89 Camaro V-8.
My car will not start it was working perfectly fine then my lowet nall joint broke anf i had to get it fixed and when i came back my car would not stary its turning over but will not start
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yes you can burn out a pump by running it dry, a strange fact is many electric pumps actually run fuel through the motor windings, this cools the windings, you don't get an explosion or fire because the gas doesn't conduct electricity and acts as an insulator. as far as a reserve tank,many large SUVs actually have a separate reserve tank, if the fuel level drops to a certain point in the main tank, the reserve fuel is pumped into the main. There were older American full size cars that also had this, Lincoln comes to mind, some had a five gallon reserve tank in the trunk
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NO.even if its full of coolnat, the coolnat will not CIRCULATE.automotive water pumps circulate water around and around inside the motor. when the temp gets high enough, thermostat opens and it exchanges the water in the motor with the water in the radiaitor until temps drop enough to close the thermostat.without it circulating, the heat generated in the cylinders will stay in and around the cylinders. your temp sending unit is most likely located by the thermostat, it sees the heat the thermostat sees, with the water not circulating, it will not see the heat in and around the cylinders until it can spread directly.get it hot enough, the pistons will expand until they sieze inside the cylinders. motor will be trash.even with no towing plan as part of your insurance, a tow is MUCH cheaper then a new motor.however, a tow is expensive enough that just one every year or two and you could of paid for a towing plan. i have AAA's, not only do i get towing but i can get discounts on many things with my membership, and pay for it with just those savings.
NO.even if its full of coolnat, the coolnat will not CIRCULATE.automotive water pumps circulate water around and around inside the motor. when the temp gets high enough, thermostat opens and it exchanges the water in the motor with the water in the radiaitor until temps drop enough to close the thermostat.without it circulating, the heat generated in the cylinders will stay in and around the cylinders. your temp sending unit is most likely located by the thermostat, it sees the heat the thermostat sees, with the water not circulating, it will not see the heat in and around the cylinders until it can spread directly.get it hot enough, the pistons will expand until they sieze inside the cylinders. motor will be trash.even with no towing plan as part of your insurance, a tow is MUCH cheaper then a new motor.however, a tow is expensive enough that just one every year or two and you could of paid for a towing plan. i have AAA's, not only do i get towing but i can get discounts on many things with my membership, and pay for it with just those savings.
NO.even if its full of coolnat, the coolnat will not CIRCULATE.automotive water pumps circulate water around and around inside the motor. when the temp gets high enough, thermostat opens and it exchanges the water in the motor with the water in the radiaitor until temps drop enough to close the thermostat.without it circulating, the heat generated in the cylinders will stay in and around the cylinders. your temp sending unit is most likely located by the thermostat, it sees the heat the thermostat sees, with the water not circulating, it will not see the heat in and around the cylinders until it can spread directly.get it hot enough, the pistons will expand until they sieze inside the cylinders. motor will be trash.even with no towing plan as part of your insurance, a tow is MUCH cheaper then a new motor.however, a tow is expensive enough that just one every year or two and you could of paid for a towing plan. i have AAA's, not only do i get towing but i can get discounts on many things with my membership, and pay for it with just those savings.
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It costs just as much to keep your tank full as it does to keep it empty.
Holy moley! Isn't anyone monitoring/blocking inappropriate comments? It's sad 'cause people are coming here for automotive help and they have to wade through tons of crap to get some info.
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Great info, thanks. I'm gonna stop running on low all the time.
Why on Earth do automakers now put the fuel pump in the tank? That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard of.
I remember the pump going on on my 70 roadrunner. It was no biggie. I went down to Kragens, bought a new pump for something like $20 and replaced it myself in about a half hour.
It was mounted right on the front of the engine, very accessible. Same failure happened in my 97 camaro and it was around $1500 at the dealership (although I could have muddled through the repair it was a bit outside what I had time for).
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@whats the point: The type of person that would not fill there tank very often could definitely be the same type of person to replace their own pump.. sometimes it has nothing to do with laziness, but cheapness lol my friends first vehicle was a jeep cherokee and he always ran it low on gas so of course the pump went, but he was too cheap/broke to pay anyone to do it so he went online and learned how to fix it himself. IMO everyone should be doing that, saves an insane amount of money!!
Most bad pumps we get are really bad filters, new filterr and the bike runs fine, the manufacturers don't all sell filters seperate, they come with
pump, so you have to put in a Suzuki filter
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The tank should be just fine beuasce most fish tank last for years and don't need to be re-sealed, but if you are still worried check the seal. If it looks damaged then fix it or you could fill it up and let it sit for awhile and that would tell you too.
The tank should be just fine beuasce most fish tank last for years and don't need to be re-sealed, but if you are still worried check the seal. If it looks damaged then fix it or you could fill it up and let it sit for awhile and that would tell you too.
The tank should be just fine beuasce most fish tank last for years and don't need to be re-sealed, but if you are still worried check the seal. If it looks damaged then fix it or you could fill it up and let it sit for awhile and that would tell you too.
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What can I do if I have my car at home and its low on gas????
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U83Tvl There is visibly a lot to realize about this.
I believe you made various nice points in features also.
Hmmm, I'm pretty sure you've belggod about having gushers every once and a while.
And I know batteries don't last four years.
Are we allowed to guess the same thing someone else has?
If so, I am thinking it was your first No Delivery error.
I thought that even before I saw Gary's comment.
If I have to pick guess something that no one else has guessed before, then I'll guess you had your first kinked cannula.
Although I can't imagine going 4 years without running into that.
I fear I have a
addiction.
I need to work on that.
On every car I have ever owned I run the tank down until the light goes on every single tank of fuel, and I have NEVER replaced a fuel pump.
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