秀金时代：穷人的偏见
穷人的偏见
原本我们要做的就不是抱怨自己的现状多么凄惨，嫉妒别人过得多么光鲜，而是通过努力自己能够摆脱贫困，当代社会不需要啊Q,，每一个人都应该拼搏奋进。
90后作家郭敬明曾经在电视上向现场观众分享他对财富的看法，他说在当今，社会，好像只要是有钱人，就要被仇视，这种态度是不对的。很多有钱人的财富，很可能是辛苦劳动、创业得来的。
仇富成为当今中国社会的共同心态，而社会舆论似乎天然地向穷人倾斜，只要有人替富人说话，多数会被人吐槽拍砖。甚至有人认为，是富人让他们更穷，比如有人就提出，马云是传统商业衰落的始作俑者。
一个正常的社会，一定是一个尊重创造和劳动的社会。一个富人，如果他不是穷凶极恶的，他是合法的依靠自己的智慧和劳动获得了财富，我们就应该对他们怀有敬意。即使一个开超市的小老板，那怕只养一个雇工，一年只交几千元的税，消费几万元的社会商品，对一个社会仍然是有益的。至少他避免了两个家庭的失业，可能你经过的某一座大桥某一条马路有他的一份，你卖出的某一件商品有他的买单。他们是纳税人，社会财富创造的主体，是他们推动了这个世界的进步，改变了你曾经讨厌的世界面貌。
克伦威尔说，人不可能攀登得比他并不知道要去的地方高。富人的存在意义在于，他们的商业探索和创新，使人们知道一个社会究竟能攀登到多高的地方。在所有纳税人中，富人起到了中流砥柱的作用。据日毕马威会计师事务所(KPMG)发布的2009年度全球个人所得税和社会保险费率调查报告显示，中国的高收入群体应缴的最高个税税率仅次于日本，为亚洲第二。
无论在经济发达的欧美，还是欠发达的第三世界，富人仍然是社会财富创造的绝对力量，同时他们对社会进步和创新的引领作用也日益凸显。美国的许多名校就是富人捐款维持的，我国也有许多富人捐建的学校，我们中的许多人或者我们的子孙正在或将要享受他们捐献的教育福利。
这个社会不是马云之流的富翁太多，而是太少，我们需要更多的他们改变这个世界，重新塑造这个世界的精神气质
笔者秀金时代（CFP）对石油市场研究数年，对于策略解析以及资金管理有独特见解。一直致力于为国家、投资朋友奉献一份力，这不仅是一个名字，而是金融界的一段低调传奇。在货币市场，你永远不是一个人在战斗，而是有我以及我身后的一群人，除了老师的角色，我更希望的是诚心去交你这个朋友，我能给你的就是：教你如何做好一个资产管理者.笔者微信xiujinshidai 扣扣：
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声明：本文由入驻搜狐号的作者撰写，除搜狐官方账号外，观点仅代表作者本人，不代表搜狐立场。
今日搜狐热点你会很惊讶中国大学生如何看待眼下的美国
原创翻译：龙腾网
翻译：糯米团子 转载请注明出处
论坛地址：/bbs/thread--1.html
&You'd Be Surprised What Chinese College Students Think Of America These Days
你会很惊讶中国大学生如何看待眼下的美国
【日期】日
【链接】/20 ... rica_n_6244638.html
XI&AN, China -&China continues to open up to the West economically, and there are signs thatU.S.-China relations could be improving. But a series of recent conversationswith Chinese college students revealed that many in China remain both intenselypatriotic and skeptical of the United States. And while China's economycontinues to become more capitalistic, the Chinese definitely do not thinkAmerica and the West have it all figured out politically or economically,especially not after the 2008 financial crisis. The students The WorldPostspoke with were also sensitive to, and eager to defend their country against,what they perceived as negative American press and sentiment towards China.
中国西安&&经济方面，中国会继续向西方开放，有迹象显示中美关系可能提升。但最近同中国大学生的对话反应出不少中国人有着极其强烈的爱国心以及对美国的不信任。当中国的经济持续走向资本化时，中国人当然也就不指望美国和西方能理解他们的政治和经济了，尤其是2008年金融危机之后。The WorldPost同学的话有些敏感，他渴望用反击来捍卫他的国家，他们认为美国媒体对中国总是持负面态度。
Most of the college students we spoke with had never been to America. Theiropinions came from third-hand reports, interactions with Americans in Chinaand, of course, movies and television. Some of the students' comments reflectedstereotypes that have -- like so many stereotypes -- a grain of truth to them.At the same time, many of them, especially those who had encountered Americansthemselves, were willing to move beyond their preconceived notions of thecountry.
What's clear is that Chinese students do indeed have opinions about the U.S.,opinions that may be stronger than American students' views on China. Below areexcerpts from conversations The WorldPost had with students from JiaotongUniversity in Xi'an as well as several other students in Beijing:
我们所说的多数大学生都没到过美国。他们的观点来自第三方报道，在中的美国人，当然，还有电影电视。部分学生言论带有明显成见&&就像那些老套刻板的印象&&对他们来说的事实。同时，他们当中的不少，尤其是与美国人接触过的那些，都很愿意摒弃先入为主的国家印象。
很明显的一点，中国学生确实对美国有自己的见解，这些见解比美国学生对中国认识强。下面摘录的对话是The WorldPost和西交大一家其他北京学生的对话。
&It&s really not that easy to be president in China. It&s a lot harder than inAmerica. Because in America, you just have to be very handsome and give somegood speeches, and they are stars. But in China, you can&t just win theelection. It is really official, with great authority. If Obama came to Chinato try to be president, he would lose.& &Chen Bo, Xi&an Jiaotong University
中国的主席真的不容易当。比美国困难得多。在美国你只要长帅点能做个精彩演讲，就变明星了。但在中国，你不能只靠赢了选举。那真的非常官方，非常权威。如果奥巴马来中国竞选总统，会失败而归&&陈波，西交大
&I love the freedom in America. Do you mind if I sit up here? [pointing to her&chair armrest] ... In China, if we have a very formal meeting like this, Iwouldn&t be allowed to sit here. This is just a little sign of the freedom. Iwould like to go to America for my Ph.D., and this is one of the reasons Ichoose America.& &Huang Xin, Xi&an Jiaotong University
我喜欢美国的自由。我能坐这里吗？（指着某妹子椅子的扶手）在中国，如果这是个非常正式的会议，我就不会被允许坐到这。这也是一种自由象征。我打算去美国读博士，这是我会去美国的一个原因&&黄鑫，西交大
&People in America are more independent, with more suspicion of others. WeChinese people, to some extent, are very kind-hearted. If we see some Chinesepeople are in trouble in the streets, maybe we want to help them -& just likewe&d like to give our seat on the bus to other people, such as old people orpregnant women. But I think in America, you just need to take care of your ownbusiness. I admire that because you are very independent, and you don&t want torely on others. Maybe this is just a cultural difference. With Chinese people,we just like harmony because we have very traditional concepts of family. Wecare very much about other people, even if he or she does not belong to our ownfamily but to the world and to the country.& &Wang Li, Xi&an JiaotongUniversity
美国人更独立更具有怀疑精神。我们中国人，从某种程度上讲，更善良。如果看到大街上有中国人遇到麻烦了，我们就会去帮他们&&就比如我们会在公交车上让座给老人或孕妇。而美国人只是管好自己的事，我很佩服这点你们很独立，不想去麻烦别人。或许这是文化差异。对中国人来讲，我们喜欢讲和谐，因为我们的传统家庭观念。我们会去关心别人，即使他或她不是我的家人，但我们都住在同一个世界同一个国家&&王丽，西交大。
&I had a chance to talk with a group of young American singers who came toChina. They were different than us. They care very little about policies. Theyenjoy their life. They want to sing, go abroad and visit local plays, and theydo it. I think people in America maybe are happier. They are more free topursue their happiness but for us, our parents, government and society put somuch pressure.& &undergraduate student, Beijing
我有过一次同来中国的一群年轻美国歌手交流过。他们和我们不同。他们很少关心政治。他们享受他们的生活。他们想唱歌，出国去观看当地戏剧，他们就去做了。我想美国人也许更快乐。他们更自由的追求快乐，但对我们来说，我们的父母，政府和社会给与了我们太多压力&&北京学生
&I worked with an American who came here to start a consulting company. Healways worked overtime. Before, I thought Americans just want to enjoy theirlife but I realized not all Americans are like that. He told me that peoplehave to work hard. He told me to fight like a war. Now I think that Americansare so hard-working.& -undergraduate student, Beijing
我和一个来中国开咨询公司的美国人工作过。他总是加班。以前，我认为美国人只想享受，现在我知道不是所有美国人都如此。他告诉我人们必须要努力工作。他说他喜欢像打仗那样去奋斗。想在我知道美国人也有勤奋工作的&&北京学生
&This year ...college students have gotten more and more opportunities to be exchangestudents in the U.S.A. When they first came, they were shocked and excitedabout the fresh air, the buildings, everything there. But after a period oftime, they felt unsafe. For example, one of my classmates, she went to theU.S.A. last year, and she took a bus. She felt unsafe because there were somany crazy people on the bus. She heard some shots.& &Yu Biyan, Xi&an JiaotongUniversity
最近几年&&大学生去美国当交换生的机会越来越多。当他们初来咋到，惊奇而兴奋，新鲜的空气，建筑，等等一起。但是过了这个时期，他们会觉得不安全。比如，我的一个同学，她去年到的美国，坐公交车吓到了，因为车上有很多疯狂的人，她还听到了枪声&&于碧燕，西交大
&[Censorship] does bother me. When I was abroad I thought, &Wow, this is sofree. There are so many resources of information available. I can get onTwitter, Facebook, even just for entertainment.& But in China, as we are adeveloping country, we have to get some things under control. It does reallybother me but we are working on it, and some day we will be just like the U.S.with many resources available.& &Huang Xin, Xi&an Jiaotong University
（审查）来勾搭我吧，当我在国外是我这么想过，哇，真是太自由了。这有这么多可用信息资源。我可以用推特，非死不可，即使只是为了娱乐。但在国内，我们还是发展国家，我们有些事情被管控着。那确实困扰了我但我们也在改进，也许有一天我们能像美国一样有这么多的可用资源&&黄鑫，西交大
&I want to go to MIT. I saw a movie with Matt Damon [&Good Will Hunting&].&&undergraduate student, Xi&an Jiaotong University
我想去麻省理工。我看过马特达蒙的一部电影（心灵捕手）&&西交大学生
&When I accommodated American students for one month, I was impressed that thestudents agreed to talk about their thoughts. They came here to learn Chineseand although they hadn&t grasped many words, they agreed to talk to people andgo outside. So I think this kind of bravery, I can learn from that.&&undergraduate student, Xi&an Jiaotong University
我曾和美国学生当过一个月的室友，令我印象深刻的是他们很乐意谈论他们的想法。他们来学习中文虽然掌握的不是太多，但他们愿意出去找人沟通。我认为这很有勇气，我能从中学到这点&&西交大学生
Clarification: The dateline has been updated to confreporting was done from both Xi'an and Beijing, China.
说明：时间线有变动，为了符合公司的风格；报告来自中国的西安和北京。
原创翻译：龙腾网
翻译：糯米团子 转载请注明出处
论坛地址：/bbs/thread--1.html&
Frank Young &Sacramento, California & December 3 at 6:53pm&&+55
If these students would come over here and find out majority Americans are insuch a poverty stricken condition, they would be more shocked.
如果这些学生能够来到这里，发现大多数美国人处于在这样一个贫困的状态，他们将更为震惊。
Ken Kenneth & December 3 at 9:46pm&&+22
Dear Ms. MIles,
Thanks for your article. it is nice to communicate between people in the twocountries. this is healthy and necessary for people to understand each other.
you say Chinese Americans hate US, actually you don't know what are behind whatyou have learned. Chinese Americans love US as much as others. having a weak USis not their best of interest. statistics shows that Chinese Americans areamong the richest groups. Why, because they are making more contributions tothe country than many others and they deserve it. in the meantime, it reflectsthe fact, as I said, Chinese Americans love US at least not less thanothers.&
however, when negative, unfair, and highly biased news articles against chinaflooding on the internet with a lots of generalizing comments, they areshocked. most of them stand up for fairness not because they hate US. in someoccasions, they might have felt US should loss just because the government didsomething either unfair or groundless. all people have a tendency to pursuejustice.&
I used not to read Yahoo news, just recently, I read them feel the US freedomis rotting by those people without moral limits. Chinese Americans, by nature,know both sides when the topics are related to China. they are the mostknowledgeable group. the government, journalists and others should pay respectto their comments. in most their comments, they are pretty fair and rationalizetheir views based the truth. I'm sure if china does something unfair to the US,they will do the same thing to defend US.
any way, it may take time for US and china to get to well know each other. i'llwilling to bridge the gap and have been trying to be a reasonable andconstructive person.
亲爱滴迈尔斯女士：
感谢你的文章，很高兴两个国家的人可以这样沟通。这是人们之间彼此理解的有效和必要方式。你说美籍华人讨厌美国，事实上是你知其一不知其二。美籍华人和其他美国人一样爱美国。唱衰美国不符合他们的利益。有数据表明，美籍华人是最富裕的群体。为啥这么说呢，因为他们比其他人为国家做了更多地贡献这是他们应得的。同时，所反映出来的事实就是，美籍华人对美国的热爱不比其他人少。然而，当媒体上大量负面不公平和满是偏见的新闻伴随着海量断章取义以偏概全的评论出现时，他们还是震惊了。他们当中的大部分人要求公正不是因为他们恨美国。某些场合中，他们认为美国活该报应那是因为政府做了一些极不公正又无中生有的事情。人类的天性是追求正义的。过去我不看雅虎新闻，最近看了一篇，他们感受到因为那些没有道德底线的人我们的自由已经开始腐坏。美籍华人，在涉及中国的话题上本能的顾及双边。他们是个博学的群体，政府，记者和其他人应该对他们的意见给予尊重。他们大部分的意见基于真相公正而合理。我想如果中国对我们做了同不公正的事情，他们一定会也做同样的事情捍卫美国。无论如何，中美之间相互了解需要时间。我很乐意为消除分歧尽份力也会努力做个理性积极的人。
Wayne Trask & LosAngeles, California & December 3 at 10:10pm&&+12
majority Americans are in such a poverty stricken condition???? you have itbackwards. more chinese live in poverty than not. remember, that is still acommunist nation. but if you think most americans are poverty stricken, youmust live in the south. statistics show that region has the poorest people.
大部分美国人生活贫困？？？？你哪看来的。告诉你美国穷人不会比中国多。记住，那是共产国家，如果你认定大部分美国人穷的要死，你肯定是住在南部，数据统计说那的人最穷。
Jun Zhao & YaleSchool of Management & December 3 at 10:14pm&&+82
It is interesting (perhaps a bit disappointing) to see that after so manydecades of &opening up to the outside world&, Chinese young people'sviewpoints still sound so naive...of course, I think a lack of Englishproficiency may have played a role here (assuming these are directquotes)....but when can we ever hear a young kid from the Middle Kingdom (myold country) expresses his/her views with some maturity and thoughtfulness(whether they like America or Americans or not). I guess the education system mayhave also contributed to this ...It is most ironic to read this quote from WangLi, Xi&an Jiaotong University...this person must not even read much news fromthe government censored media sources within China..he/she stated &Chinesepeople, to some extent, are very kind-hearted. If we see some Chinese peopleare in trouble in the streets, maybe we want to help them -& just like we&dlike to give our seat on the bus to other people, such as old people orpregnant women& Really? I do not know what country he or she is talkingabout...This is a country (sadly) that has been plagued in recent years byfrequent incidents where nobody would offer any help to people (includingbabies) getting hurt under broad daylight on busy city streets (trafficaccidents, heart attacks, crimes and so on)....All he/she needs to do is justto turn on his/her TV and watch CCTV (China Central Television) But beingChinese myself, I can tell you that this person may actually think he/she istelling the truth...because the education system is so much about teachingtheoretical &fantasy& (instead of information/knowledge of reality)
有意思（也许有点失望）的是在&对外开放&几十年之后，中国年轻人的看法听起来依旧是那么幼稚&&当然，我想英语水平差占主因（假设这些话是直接引用）&&当我们听到来自中央王国（我老家）的年轻孩子表达出他/她深思熟虑后的看法（他们是否喜欢美国或美国人），我想教育系统也只能做成这样了&&最可笑的是从西交大的王丽看到的那段话&&这人甚至连中国国内审查阉割过的新闻都没看过，他/她说&我们中国人，从某种程度上讲，更善良。如果看到大街上有中国人遇到麻烦了，我们就会去帮他们&&就比如我们会在公交车上让座给老人或孕妇。&真的？我不知道他/她在说哪个国家&这个国家（悲哀的是）在繁忙的街道上没有人去帮助（交通事故，心脏病发作、犯罪等）受伤的人（包括婴儿），在最近几年这些频繁发生的事情困扰着我。他/她说得这些仅仅就是把他/她在中国央视（中国中央电视台）看到的搬出来，作为一个中国人我可以告诉你，这人可能会认为他/她说的是实话&&因为教育体系教授的就是这些&幻想&理论（而不是现实的知识/信息）
Flynn McBun & Works at Various & December 3 at 10:16pm&&+8
I am Canadian. To me, I think Americans have always seem more entrepreneurialand optimistic about their own country than rest of the world. As for theChinese students I've met here, they would say their country is moving towardwhat Western countries were in the 1960s, and of course with bit of strong handgovernment censorship. But they just accepted corruption and censorship as thenorm over there.
我是加拿大人。对我来说，我认为美国人似乎总是认定自己的国家比世界其他地区更有创业精神和乐观主义。至于我遇见的中国学生，他们会说从20世纪60年代起，他们的国家正朝着西方国家靠拢，当然会有强势的政府审查制度。但他们照样腐败，审查制度只是作为规范放在那。
Priscilla Chink &Business Analyst at Googl& & December 3 at 11:34pm
out of 1.3 billion only 100s/1000s are wealthy enough or politically connectedcan afford to be in us colleges.... they don't have stiudents' loans or govt.assistance to come to usa---
超过十三亿当中只有100s/1000s足够富裕的或有政治关系的才能负担得起进我们学校&他们没有学生贷款或政府援助可以来美国---
Kaitlin Rush &December 3 at 11:48pm&&+2
It's probably much harder to get elected as president of the US than be anappointed leader in China.
在美国选个总统比在中国任命个主席可能要困难的多
Zack Jaxon &Springfield, Missouri & December 4 at 12:03am&&+1
Have you seen the poverty in China? It's 50 times worse than in the UnitedStates. A lot of our poor have TV sets while their poor starve to death andlive on dirt floors if they are lucky.
你见过中国的穷人么？简直比美国的糟糕50倍。我们美国的穷人都有电视机而他们的穷人会饿死并且运气好点的生活在肮脏的地板上。
Wesley Byrnside &Owner-operator at Artisan Chocolates & December 4 at 4:44am&&+10
lol... You have never been out of this country to China or anywhere else itseems. Your statement is so off it is laughable.
哈&&你肯定从来没离开过这个国家去过中国或者其他哪里，你的观点歪楼歪的真搞笑。
Christopher Corvino& Home Health Aide at Any-Time Home Care, Inc. & December 4 at 5:46am
Wesley Byrnside If your talking to me i worked as an ESL teacher in shanghai,guanxi, and shenyang.
卫斯理伯恩赛德，如果你是在跟我说话，我在上海、广西、沈阳当过英语老师。
Asten Weems & Worksat Freelancing and volunteer work & December 4 at 6:15am&&+1
Wesley Byrnside It's not laughable, but dissing China is.
卫斯理伯恩赛德，这一点不可笑，嘲弄中国才可笑。
Glenn Woodruff &December 4 at 6:23am
Christopher Corvino Well Sir I would say Mr. Byrnside was speaking to Mr.Young. Having been to the former Soviet block Countries of Kosovo, Bulgaria,the Former Yugoslavian Republic of Macedonia as well as Afghanistan as well asmost of western Europe I would have to agree with Mr. Byrnside. Mr. Young doesnot really know what Poverty is at least not what poverty is in the countries Imention by name. Even there middle class is well below our poor sir.
那个克里斯托弗维诺先森，我想说的是伯恩赛德童鞋在说最上面那只杨同学。我去过前苏联时期的科索沃国家、保加利亚、前南斯拉夫的马其顿共和国以及同阿富汗处于同一水平的大部分西欧国家，所以我必须同意伯恩赛德。杨同学你可能不知道什么叫贫穷，至少不知道上述我提到的这些国家穷成什么样。即使这些国家的中产阶级也远低于我们的穷人生活水平。
Jerry Brown &Morehead, Kentucky & December 4 at 6:54am&&+1
Didn't you even read the comments the Chinese students made Frank?..These homegrown hatters are nothing but spoiled brats that have had it way to goodfor way to long.
你们没看过中国学生回复佛兰克的评论么？这些温室花朵啥也不行就是群被长期宠坏的熊孩子。
Nicole Mitchell Calhoun & Postdoctoral Research at University of Arkansas &December 4 at 8:31am&&+2
Dear, most people in America have no clue what true poverty is.
亲，美国大部分人对真正的贫穷没有概念
Daniel Noval &December 4 at 9:18am
Most likely a chinese national would have a difficult time identifying Americanpoverty as its still heads and above any other state of poverty people live inacross the world.
最大的可能是在美国掌管控制世界上其他穷人国家时，中国人很难辨别美国穷人。
Joseph Chen & NewYork, New York & December 4 at 9:31am
we'll it depend... while I was out at one of richest place in America EastHampton, the supermarket has many internet from China...&
their view of America, is Bentley with driver, house with 10+ room and heatedswimming pool...&
while coming back to city, in China town, I ran into chinese student has hassame view as you..&
another words, just like in China. there are rich and poor place... grantedAmerica should focus more on income equality.. ( not welfare )
我们能判断&&当我外出去美国富人区之一的东汉普顿时，那的超市有很多来自中国互联网上的东西&&
他们以为美国，到处是开宾利，十几个房间带游泳池的房子&&
回到城市，唐人街，我接触过的中国学生和你有同样看法&&
从另外角度看来讲，就像中国。有穷有富&&支持美国应该讲更多注意力放在收入平等上（而不是福利）
ven King & Works atSaving the world & December 4 at 9:35am
I do, I lived in India for 6 months. Rich and poor at the same time. It wascrazy.
当然，我在印度住了6个月。穷人富人都有。真是疯了。
Ramona Jackson &Jean Ribault Senior High School & December 4 at 11:19am
Nicole Mitchell Calhoun -They really don't...most of us in the US still haverunning hot and cold water in our kitchens and flush toilets in our bathroomswith hot running water. The average Chinese citizen has no flush toilet andonly a single cold water tap if they're lucky.
Nicole Mitchell Calhoun-他们中的没&&我们美国人大部分厨房都有冷热水，有冲水厕所，有带热水的浴室。普通中国居民没有冲水厕所，运气好的才会有个冷水龙头。
Michael T. Babcock& Peterborough, Ontario & December 4 at 12:56pm&&+1
Wayne Trask 22% of children in America are below the poverty line:&http://www.nccp.org/topics/childpoverty.html
Wayne Trask美国有百分之22的孩子生活在贫困线下
链接http://www.nccp.org/topics/childpoverty.html
William Roney &Shanghai, China & December 4 at 6:33pm
Michael T. Babcock come outside of America... those &poverty&stricken children are not really that poor in America. look at some of myvideos on YouTube... home with shared cold water tap and one toilet stall...that is poverty. People eating one or two meals a day... don't see too manyAmericans having to decide between eating this week or paying the rent exceptfor those that think they should only buy name brands... only having one outfitto wear all month... don't see many Americans doing that...
Michael T. Babcock出美国来看看吧&&这些美国&穷人&区的孩子根本不是穷人，上土鳖看看我的视频&&几家公用一个冷水龙头和厕所&&那才是穷人。人们每天只吃一两顿饭&&除了那些在买完名牌后穷得纠结剩下吃饭还是房租，你看到哪个美国人这样（每天只吃一两顿饭）&&全部行头只有一套衣服&&你看过几个美国人穷成这样&&
Gerald O'Hare & Rowan University & December 4 at 8:14pm&&+1
Frank, I lived in Asia and the poverty is pervasive and deep. China for examplehas workers who cannot afford the very products they make.
弗兰克，我在亚洲呆过，那里贫困是普遍广泛的，以中国为例，工人们的收入买不起他们自己工作造的产品
Casey Kingsin &December 4 at 10:32pm
These students would be shocked when the come here to America, and realizesthat being a rich princess or prince who CHEATS on exams can't get hiredbecause America is a meritocracy where the hard working get ahead.
这些中国学生到美国之后肯定会震惊，富人家的王子公主们作弊之后从不会受罚因为美国是努力工作获取成功的精英社会。
David Hoffman &Works at Pepsi & December 5 at 4:10pm
If you would travel to rural China you would see what real poverty looks like.
如果你去中国农村看看就知道啥才是真正的贫穷
Joey Lopez &Graphic Designer at BehrPaint & December 6 at 11:35am
mmmmm Americans idea of poverty and China&s idea of poverty are not in the sameball park though. We have social safety nets that are much more robust.
恩，中美人民对穷人的看法不在一个频道。我们拥有的安全网络是多么的强大。
Molly Neary & Worksat Animal Rescue & December 6 at 5:16pm
Wayne Trask The idea criticizing that most of the countries wealth is in thehands of the top 1%...demonstrates that the majority of Americans do not have alot of money. We have access to more material possessions so that may look likewealth to some. What is considered poverty in China versus here?
Per capita, China might have 'more' poor people but I don't know thestatistics.
Wayne Trask思想批判这种事情通常是掌握绝大部分国家财富的那百分之一人做的&&大部分美国老百姓可没那么多钱。我们能接触到更多更丰富的物质，所以看起来像是富了。光凭这个就能定义中国穷人？
人均，中国可能有&更多&穷人，我不太信任那些数据。
Amalek the GoatHerder & December 6 at 5:32pm
Wayne Trask Obviously you have never been to China. Communist? Communism aspracticed in China is capitalism on steroids.
Wayne Trask，显然你从没去过中国，共产主义？共产主义在中国是资本主义的类固醇。
Paul J Chamberlain& 12 hours ago
They would be shocked at what we call poverty. Rural life in China is stillvery grim.
看到我们对穷人的定义他们会吓傻的。中国农村的生活十分凄惨。
Sam England &Georgia State University & 8 hours ago
Ken Kenneth - Did you actually read the quotes from the Chinese students? Mostof their opinions and sentiments about the U.S. and about Americans werepositive.
Ken Kenneth，你真的有看这篇中国学生的评论？他们对美国美国人大部分观点都是正面的。
Bob Nicholson &Daegu & December 5 at 7:33am
The first thing I thought of was the Death of Wang Yue when I read that
话说看到这我第一个想到王悦之死
武康銳&& Los Angeles, California & 22 hours ago&&+2
Mr. Zhao allow me to be frank with you...as an expat who remained in the U.S.and was able to secure an academic position in one of the better universities,your income alone dictates that the view you possess in regard to America is asskewed as a rich Shanghaise kid has on China. It is easy to find a placeappreciable from inside a luxury vehicle.
Meanwhile, fact is Chinese students have been pound-for-pound kinder and morehelpful to me than American students have. This is just comparing my entrysemester at the institution I am taking a break from, and a summer semester inChina. Whereas my Chinese friends took me around the entire neighborhood, tookthe time to jump on the subway and teach me how to get to key neighborhoods andshopping districts, and then where the nightlife is...
My American &mentors& weren't bothered beyond showing me the campus,the overpriced student cafes' and the fraternity houses. Public transit? Had tofigure it out on my own. Shopping centers that are not marked up for collegestudents? Same...after experimenting with different connections and variousstrip malls. Interesting parts of town? Nope...
Not to mention I sincerely doubt any of them would have taken the time to showme where the embassies relevant to me were located....especially given the timeconsumption of two hours.&
Perhaps its because Americans/Caucasians still present a novelty to the Chinese(who are a lot more polite and helpful every step of the way) as well as avaluable way of practicing English.&
Perhaps its because Americans mostly concern themselves with Thirsty Thursday,scoring, and view foreign students (particularly Chinese and Arab) as aninvasive species...
赵同学，请允许我替弗兰克来跟你聊一聊&&作为一个在美外国人并能在著名学府谋得一席，你的收入必定是要受到你对美国态度影响的，就像中国上海那些被扭曲的富家孩子。从某辆豪车中很容易预见的到。
而事实上，在你说的这些情况中我从中国学生处得到的帮助远比美国学生多的多。对比下我好不容易摆脱掉的那个新生学期和在中国的夏季学期。我的中国朋友带我逛了一遍周边熟悉环境，之后花时间带我坐地铁，传授我如何跟邻居相处，在哪购物，如何逛夜市&&我的美国&导师&不乐意被打扰给我简单展示了下大学生活，高价的学生咖啡馆和学生联谊会。公共运输系统？想了解自己钻研去。要找适合大学生的购物中心？同样自己钻研去&&研究完各种链接和购物中心之后&&发现啥有趣的了？想都别想
更不用说他们当中的哪个会好心地告诉我当地的大使馆怎么走&&尤其是那要花费差不多两个小时。
或许美国人/高加索人种对中国人（这些能看出谁更有礼貌和乐于助人）来说瞧着很稀奇，又或者只是作为练习英语口语的方式。
又或者大部分美国人只关心他们自己的渴望，周四的比分以及认为外国学生（尤其是中国和阿拉伯）是入侵物种的看法。
Sue Wilson & Brea, California& 13 hours ago
武康銳&I do not think that your experience is typical. You musthave been associating with very snooty people at a very snooty school. .Usually academic institutions in US, especially public ones, go out of theirway to accommodate, advise, and assist foreign students. They have large depts.charged with assisting and welcoming foreign students. Either you selected avery snooty univ. and/or you have a chip on your shoulder. Part of the idea oflearning is to learn about all of the world. I am an extremely educated personin the US who does not think that your stated experience is at all typical.
武康銳，我可不认为你的经历典型。你肯定是在一个充满傲慢家伙的自大学校里。通常美国的学术机构，尤其是公众的那些，都有给外国学生如何适应的指导建议以及援助。那是个大部门，负责迎接和协调外国学生。不管是你待的学校太傲慢还是你自己太气势汹汹。学习的目的是了解整个世界。我受过良好的教育，在美国没人会认为你的经历具有代表性。
武康銳&& Los Angeles, California & 12 hours ago
Sue Wilson -Quote: &I am an extremely educated person.&
Ah...well speaking of snooty...and it seems you've not been educated properlyenough to draw conclusions from my vocabulary and sentence structure level thatI am not classified as an international student.&
Besides, no U.S. university has decent easing-in program, something VERYimportant and it reflects as even in New Haven Connecticut, a relativelyvibrant place...students rarely venture beyond the Howe-Church street parallelbecause they're all snooty scared little puppies.&
So please, spare me your &humble& opinion. Experience proves itwrong.&
回复Sue Wilson -Quote:&我受过良好的教育。&
嗯&&自大这词用得好啊&&似乎你的教育水平不够从我的词汇和句子当中理解得出我不是外国学生这个结论。
另外，在一些重要事项上美国大学根本没有适合的长远发展规划，即使是康涅狄格州的纽黑文（美国古城，文化旅游中心，也是著名学府耶鲁所在地），一个相对充满活力的地方&学生们少有敢冒险越过the Howe-Church街并行的，因为他们是群被吓坏的自大浅薄小P孩。
所以拜托，节省点你&谦虚&的意见，亲身体会下再来论长短吧。
Hyun Chul Ro &Silicon Architecture Engineer at Intel & 6 hours ago
武康銳&So you've visited every colleges in United states to saythat no US university has decent easing-in program right? Also I as a Koreaninternational student thought that the US university DID have a great easing-inprogram. Your experience is not representative so as mine. So lets stop saying&In my experience .. blah blah blah& when we are trying logicallyconvey a point.
武康銳，所以你已经逛完美国全部的大学得出了&美国大学根本没有适合的长远发展规划&这个正确结论？我得说作为来自韩国的国际学生我认为美国大学有长远发展规划。你的经验不能代表我的。所以停止&按照我的经验&&&这种话吧，带点逻辑来表达我们的观点。
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Ryan Clarke &University of Southern California & December 3 at 4:25pm&&+33
The Taiwanese students that did a semester at my college were some of thesharpest, most polite, most respectful, most interesting people I met. Reallygreat, all of them.
这学期我学校有台湾学生，他们是我见过最敏锐、最礼貌、最尊重别人、最有趣的的人。真的很棒，他们所有都是。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 6:15pm&&+58
Taiwan IS NOT CHINA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
台湾不是中国的！！！！
Mingjie Chai &Shanghai Jiao Tong University & December 3 at 6:58pm&&+21
Jon Nichols I think you should read more history books, thank you.
Jon Nichols我觉得你应该多看点历史书，拜托
Lee Law Li &Jobless at Unemployed & December 3 at 7:07pm&&+27
Taiwan are more refined and well informed compared to China
比起中国，台湾更优雅信息便利
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 7:20pm
Taiwan is a province of China, even Obama and caveman know it.
台湾是中国的一个省，连奥巴马和穴居人都知道
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 7:30pm&&+33
Mingjie Chai I know the people in Mainland China THINK Taiwan is part of China,but it is not. There are virtually no Taiwanese people who accept that Taiwanis part of China. Most of them are willing to die in order to prove that point.The fact that you believe Taiwan to be a part of China, just shows that you area victim of Chinese Nationalist propaganda. I don't blame you personally(because I am sure that you grew up with limited access to actual history), butI do maintain that this is a fine example of intellectual oppression that stemsfrom the tight control that the Chinese government maintains over access toinformation. I live in Taiwan, I am married to a Taiwanese woman, and Ireceived my PhD in Taiwan--at a TAIWANESE national university. I have alsotraveled and lectured extensively in Mainland China. I am well aware ofChinese/Taiwanese history. I am uniquely qualified to comment on thisissue--thank you very much. China is a developing nation with a communist government.Taiwan is a vibrant and active democracy--one of the oldest in all of Asia. Thetwo are not the same.
Mingjie Chai，我知道中国大陆人都认为台湾是中国的，但它不是。几乎没有台湾人愿意承认台湾是中国的一部分。大部分人宁愿死也不肯承认,而实际上你相信台湾是中国的一部分，那只表明你是中国民族主义宣传的受害者。我个人并不怪你（我敢肯定你成长的地方限制历史真相）。但我认为这是一个很好的例子，中国政府控制对信息访问以此进行知识压迫。我住在台湾，我娶了一个台湾女人，拿到了博士学位&&台湾国立大学。我也经常在大陆旅行和演讲。我非常了解中国/台湾史。这个问题我是唯一有资格去评论的&&非常感谢你。中国是一个共产主义的发展中国家。台湾是个充满生机和拥有活力民主的&&亚洲最古老的国家之一。两者是不同的。
Leigh Hincks &General Manager at On Track Inforation Services & December 3 at7:32pm&&+13
Mingjie Chai No, Taiwan is NOT china. Not right now. History changes. Thereused to be Yugoslavia, but that has gone. History is what happened in the past.NOW, Taiwan is not part of china. It is a separate nation state. It has its ownpolitical system, currency and passport.
China used to be part of Mongolia. Chinese should get over the fact that whathappened 400, or even 50 years ago is of no importance to what is in effectnow.
Mingjie Chai，不，台湾不是中国的。现在不是了，历史会变的。以前还有南斯拉夫，现在都没了。历史是已经过去的事情，台湾现在不是中国的。它是一个独立的国家。它有自己的政治制度，货币和护照。
蒙古以前是中国的。中国应该面对现实，400年前或者50年前发生的什么对现在已经不重要了。
Jay Majumdar & December 3 at 7:38pm&&+4
Mingjie Chai you know well that people of Taiwan don't consider themselveschinese or part of your country. in fact was there not recent election wherepro china party got wiped out?
Mingjie Chai你知道台湾不承认是中国人也否认是中国的一部分。事实上，他们不是在最近的选举中才灭掉亲中党的你晓得么？
Jay Majumdar &December 3 at 7:38pm&&+1
Jon Nichols was there not recent election in your country where pro china partygot wiped out?
Jon Nichols他们不是在最近的选举中才灭掉亲中党的好伐？
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 7:42pm&&+2
Jon Nichols you live in TAIWAN PROVINCE don't make you an expert of Chinesehistory. Jackie Chan was born in Hong Kong, he married a woman from TAIWANPROVINCE, he and his wife know TAIWAN PROVINCE is a part of China. AntiSecession law is fully in force, 1.3 billion population in mainlandoverwhelmingly supercede 23 million in TAIWAN PROVINCE province. Your academiccredential has no impact of what a non Chinese foreigner in TAIWAN PROVINCEhave to say.
Jon Nichols你住在台湾省不会让你变成中国历史专家。成龙是香港人，他娶了台湾省的妹子，他们夫妇都知道台湾省是中国的。十三亿中国大陆人口碾压两千三百万台湾省人口，反分裂法是强制性生效的。你的学历没有告诉你一个住在台湾省无中国国籍的外国佬没有话语权吧！&
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 7:47pm&&+2
Jay Majumdar Yes Jay. We recently had an election in Taiwan (unlike China)where the KMT suffered overwhelming losses.
Jay Majumdar没错，jay,我们台湾最近进行了选举（不像中国）结果是国民党输的一塌糊涂。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 7:58pm&&+7
William Chak You misunderstand. It is my Phd that makes me an expert in Chinesehistory. Taiwan is not a province of China, those are fighting words to mostTaiwanese. I have probably lived in Taiwan for longer than you've been alive,and your assertion that the misguided opinion China's larger population somehownegates Taiwan's status as a sovereign nation is baffling at best. Perhaps thisis another example of communist group-think? However, the fact remains thatTaiwan is not now, and hopefully never will be a part of China--regardless ofwhat Jackie Chan has to say about the matter. P.S. I find your third-worldNationalistic racism to be quite bracing. It probably will do little for you ifyou want to be taken seriously in academic settings. It actually goes a longway toward proving my point that the Taiwanese and Chinese are not the same. Inever experience this type of bigotry here in Kaohsiung.
William Chak你误会了。我的博士学位是中国史。台湾不是中国的一个省，那些打嘴仗的大都是台湾人。我居住在台湾的时间比你的年龄都大，你以中国庞大的人口数量来否掉台湾作为一个国家的观点错误的莫名其妙。还是这是另外一种共产小团体思维？然而，不管成龙怎么看待，台湾现在不是中国的，以后也永远不希望是。
PS：我发现你严重支持第三世界民族主义。如果你想在学术环境中得到重视它可不会给你带来好处。事实上要证明我的中国和台湾不一样观点还有很长的路要走。我在高雄就没遇到过这种偏见。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 7:59pm&&+2
Taiwan is a province of China, that hasn't changed, it is still in the book, itis under ISO3166TW. Not even one single U.S. president would say Taiwan isindependent. even Obama had said it recently at APEC meeting, he said Taiwan isa part of China, Taiwan attempted to join UN but failed miserably. All thosepropaganda about Taiwan independence is nothing but a waste of time.
台湾是中国的一个省，这不会改变，它仍然是载进史册，归到iso3166tw下。（台湾地理区码的ISO标准,被归到中华民国子集，而中华民国隶属PS:ISO 3166-2:CN，也就是被归类为大中国区四个子区之一）没有任何一位美国总统会说台湾是独立的。甚至奥巴马也在最近的APEC会议上做了表示，他说，台湾是中国的一部分，台湾试图加入联合国而失败。所有这些台湾独立的宣传，只不过是浪费时间罢了。
Jay Majumdar & December 3 at 8:01pm&&+1
William Chak I have a question- per your logic since Jon has no right to saywhat his people say - would you also say then that the same fate lies for allthose countries who dispute china's claim over SCS, where they( china) areeffectively saying - &'A 3000 old map told us chinese that all of south chinasea is ours- hence it is& ? BTW- unlike Hong Kong, China has no say soover Taiwan's democracy and internal jurisdictions - as in actual say so- yeah?
William Chak，我有个问题，按照你的逻辑JON没权利说&&你就可以说，还有那些同样和中国有南海之争的国家，他们（中国）很肯定地声称&一份3000多年的地图显示自古以来南海就是我们的&&所以他就是了&？顺便说下&&不像香港，中国对台湾民主和司法管辖没有发言权&&但实际上他也说了&&是吧？
Yi Zhang & December3 at 8:11pm&&+2
Taiwan is a province of China, whether it be the Republic of China (ROC) orPeople's Republic of China (PRC) is the question.
台湾是中国的省没错，到底是中华共和国还是中华人民共和国这是个问题。
Mike Chen & Universityof Washington & December 3 at 8:23pm&&+1
Jon Nichols Taiwan is not a country for the same reason that we don't seeplaces like Abkhazia and Transnistria as countries: virtually no one of anysignificance recognises you as one. In fact, with Russia recognising Abkhazia,their claim to independent statehood is stronger than Taiwan's.
Jon Nichols台湾不是一个国家，原因和我们不认为Abkhazia&和Transnistria一样：极少有人会认同到你的观点有意义。事实上，俄罗斯有承认阿布哈兹独立，他们声称比台湾更强劲。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 8:24pm&&+7
William Chak You are correct that there are few countries (21 I believe) thatrecognise Taiwan as an independent nation. This sadly includes The USA (sincethe Nixon administration). I would urge you to listen closely to what Americanpoliticians actually say about Taiwan. Whereas, they don't say, &Taiwan isan independent Nation&, they also don't say &Taiwan is a province ofChina&. This is called &politics&. American presidents do stillleave the Taiwan Protection Act in place. This is a law which promises that theUS will protect Taiwan in case of a Chinese invasion. The US and othercountries realise that Taiwan cannot compete with China in terms of economicopportunity, so they have mostly decided to conduct diplomatic relations withBeijing. This is not because they see Taiwan as part of China it is becauseChina refuses to have diplomatic relations with countries who have diplomaticties with Taiwan. It is just another case of Chinese bullying. You are alsocorrect that Taiwan has repeatedly tried and failed to gain recognition on theworld stage by attempting to become involved in organisations like the WHO, IOCand the UN. They are continually blocked by Chinese interference. This howeverdoes not change the fact that Taiwan is not a part of China. I do not know whatISO3166TW is (I assume it's a Chinese law), but as Taiwan is a free country anddoes not follow Chinese law, I doubt that it has much impact in our dailylives. Again, the reason that the USA and most other countries recognizeBeijing and not Taipei is because of economic and military bullying fromBeijing. This is truly a sad state of affairs and why I have theseconversations on boards like these.
William Chak你是对的，没几个国家（我相信有21个）承认台湾是独立国。遗憾的是这里有美国（尼克松政府），我劝你去听听美国政客是怎么说台湾的吧。他们没说台湾是一个国家，他们也没承认台湾是中国的一部分。这就是&政治&。美国总统仍然留着台湾保护法。这是中国入侵台湾时美国将提供保护的法律承诺。美国和其他国家认为台湾不能在经济方面同中国竞争，所以他们大多决定与北京进行外交关系。这并非是他们认为台湾是中国的一部分，而是因为中国拒绝与同台湾外交的国家建立外交关系。这只是另一个中国跋扈的例子。你是对的，台湾已多次尝试获得在世界舞台上的认可，并试图成为像是国贸组装、国际奥委会和联合国成员均失败。这些方面不停的受到中国的干扰。但这依旧不能改变事实，台湾不是中国的省。我不知道ISO3166TW是什么（我猜是中国某部法律），但台湾是个自由国家不承认中国法律，我怀疑那会严重影响我们的生活。再其次，美国和大多数国家承认北京不认台湾是北京用经济和军事胁迫的原因。这确实是个很可悲的状况也是我为啥要在这块写这么多的原因。
Jay Majumdar &December 3 at 8:24pm&&+1
Yi Zhang what about Taiwan/ Hong Kong/ The whole damn lot out of the southchina sea Republic of China? :) Oh lets not forgot you also claim an entirestate in N east India ...:P
Yi Zhang，台湾、香港和他妈那堆南中国海怎么就中华民国了？哦，让我们别忘了你还声称东北部印度是整个国家
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 8:31pm
Jay Majumdar So Jay, when did you hear China is claiming the entire state of NEindia, will you enlighten us? from your indian prospective.
Jay Majumdar，JAY，你啥时候听到中国宣称东北印度是整个国家，能指导下我们不？从你想象中的印度。
Mike Chen &University of Washington & December 3 at 8:37pm&&+5
Jon Nichols I will reply as follows:&
1. I want to know where you got your &fact& that Taiwan isn't part ofChina. Legal documents? Diplomatic accords? Defence agreements? Where exactly?I have a document countering your claim: the same constitution of the Republicof China that Taiwan operates under. It states very clearly that Taiwan is 1 of35 administrative subdivisions of China, with the other 34 obviously on themainland. And guess what? No one bothered to change the territorialclaims.&
2. The Taiwan Relations Act states there is no concreteguarantee of American involvement should conflict break out along the TaiwanStrait. In fact, knowing America, she'd probably ditch Taiwan when push comesto shove, like what happened in Vietnam.&
3. You conveniently choose to ignore how the Republic of China kept thePeople's Republic of China out of the UN until the 1970s, when the former waseffectively kicked out. Where's your claim of bullying from Taiwan?
Jon Nichols，下面这是话是回复你的
1我想知道你的台湾不是中国的一部分的&事实&&从哪里得到的。法律文件？外交协议？防御协议吗？具体出处在哪里？对你这个声称我有一个文件：台湾现行的中华民主共和国宪法。它明确规定了台湾是中国35行政区之一，很明显其他34个是大陆行政区。你猜怎么着？没有人愿意改变领土。
2&台湾关系法案啥也没有；没有具体明确的保证台湾海峡爆发冲突时美国会参与。事实上，了解美国的都知道，一旦发生啥美国更可能推开台湾，还记得越南吧。
3&你很便捷的选择忽视了中华民主共和国在上世纪70年代被中华人民共和国顶替了联合国席位，当时前任是被踢出局的。你这台湾被欺负的声称是哪里得出来的？
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 8:46pm&&+3
Jon Nichols went to &Taiwan National University&. You can't expecthim to learn the real thing. First of, there is no such thing as TaiwanNational.
Jon Nichols毕业于&台湾国立大学&，你不能指望他能学到啥。首先就没有台湾国（立）这么个东西。
（PS:台湾公办的大学有三十来所，按惯例都会在校名前加上个国立俩字做区别。最出名的四个有&国立清华大学&&国立交通大学&&国立政治大学&。死活没问着啥&Taiwan National University（台湾国立大学）&只有前身是台北帝国大学，而今的台大，台湾最好的大学也是唯一敢用台湾命名的，其全称是国立台湾大学，国际通用英文缩写NTU(National Taiwan University)全球名校排行前100）
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 8:58pm&&+4
Mike Chen 1. Again, you are correct that the (KMT drafted) constitution of theRepublic of China (Taiwan), states that at some point in the future a free andunified China will be governed according to democratic principles from Taipei.It was always Chiang-Kai Shek's intention to drive out the communists andreunify China under KMT rule. Hopefully, at some time in the near future theChinese will decide for themselves that communism is a flawed and corruptsystem and change the country from within. We can already see that the peopleof Hong Kong feel this way, and are starting to take action.At that time thatChina's stance on human rights and personal liberties becomes progressiveenough, reunification might actually become a worthwhile proposition for Taiwan.Until that time, we are quite happy to let you progress on your own.2.According to my sources, this what the Taiwan Relations Act ensures.&The Taiwan Relations Act requires the U.S. to intervene militarily if thePRC attacks or invades Taiwan&. The act states that &the UnitedStates will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense servicesin such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficientself-defense capabilities& 3. America fought valiantly in Vietnam. Sadly welost that war, and Vietnam is worse because of it. To imply that America&did nothing& there is again a sad misreading of the facts. Again, Ithink I already stated that up until the Nixon administration, The USArecognized Taipei and not Beijing. To say that the ROC intimidated the PRC isof course, ludicrous.
Mike Chen1又一次，你是对的，（国民党起草的）中华（台湾）民主共和国宪法规定，在未来会按照民主原则由台北领导一个自由统一的中国。这是蒋介石意图要驱赶GCD由国民党来重新统一。希望在不久的将来GCD能自己想办法解决。共产主义是一个会从内部带坏国家的缺陷和腐化系统。这点我们已经从香港人身上看到了并且也看到他们在采取行动。当时（国民党起草宪法）从中国的立场上讲人权和个人自由是有一定进步的，重新统一对台湾来说或许可以是个有意义的建议。那时，我们很乐意帮助你们进步。
2&据我所知的台湾关系法案是有说&一旦中国攻击台湾美军是要武力介入的&。该法案还说&美方会保证提供足够的国防物品和服务使台湾拥有足够的自保能力&。
3&美国在越南英勇战斗。不幸的是我们输了那场战争，越南因此变得更糟。暗示美国&啥也没做&不过是又一次可怜的曲解事实。再次，我已经说了美国是到尼克松这一任还是承认台北而不是北京的。说国民党害怕中共简直是想当然的胡说八道。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 9:02pm
people in Taiwan stuck in that tiny little island, they are well informed atall.
住在台湾那个小岛上的人，他们全部都是见多识广啊。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 9:05pm
Jay Majumdar China has claimed world wide? please enlighten us with your indianprospective without propaganda.
Jay Majumdar中国对着全世界宣称？请千万指点下我们你美梦中的印度没有做过宣传。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 9:10pm
they are not well infirmed.
他们不咋牢固吧。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 9:11pm&&+4
William Chak Please... you are just proving my point. There are of course, manyNational universities in Taiwan. Each of them are fine institutions and comparewell to my M.A. which I received at the Harvard campus of Lesley University(which is a better school than the University of Illinois--if I am notmistaken).
William Chak拜托&&你刚好证明了我的观点。当然的，台湾有很多国立大学。每一个都是不错的机构并且我获得硕士学位的莱斯利大学哈佛校区也不错（他比伊利诺伊大学要好得多&&如果我没记错的话。）他回复的这位William Chak，字面显示他在芝加哥的伊利诺伊大学。
Jon Nichols&&&Top Commenter & Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 9:23pm&&+6
William Chak The people in Taiwan are much better informed than the people ofMainland China. The Chinese do not have unrestricted access to The Internet,like we do here. They also have only (very) limited access to social media.This is why the majority of people in mainland China have no idea about what'shappening in Hong Kong right now, nor do they know about the Tienanmen Squaremassacre in 1989. The total indoctrination of the Chinese population by thetheir communist leaders is indeed a truly scary thing, and one which your aredoing a fine job of demonstrating, by the way.
William Chak台湾人比中国大陆人有更好的信息来源。中国人不能像我们一样不受限制的使用互联网。他们的社会媒体也受限制，所以中国大陆人根本不清楚香港现在发生了什么，他们也不知道1989年天安门广场的大屠杀。被中国共洗脑的中国人数是非常可怕的，顺便说一下，你就是个很好实例。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 3 at 9:40pm&&+5
Mike Chen I replied to this before but for some reason it didn't show up.Please forgive me if I am repeating myself.
1. You are correct that the (KMT drafted) constitution of The ROC (Taiwan)expresses Chiang Kia Shek's desire to reunify China under one democraticallyelected, and free government based in Taipei. When mainland China progressesfar enough in the areas of human rights and personal freedom, this may still bea worthwhile proposition for us here in Taiwan. Until that time we areperfectly happy to remain separate.
2. The Taiwan Relations Act requires the U.S. to intervene militarily if thePRC attacks or invades Taiwan. The act states that &the United States willmake available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in suchquantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficientself-defense capabilities&.&
3. As I have stated earlier, most of the world recognized Taipei and the ROCuntil the Nixon administration. To assert that this was because of intimidationfrom Taiwan is laughable, and indicates that you might not know what the word&bully& actually means.
4. To assert that America &ditched& Vietnam, is a sad and insultingmisreading of the facts. America fought valiantly in Vietnam and lost. Vietnamis a much worse place because of it. To say that America &ditched&Vietnam is an insult to our country and the brave men and women who gave theirlives to protect the freedom of those people.
Mike Chen，这之前我回复过了不造为啥没了，抱歉我要再重复一次
1又一次，你是对的，（国民党起草的）中华（台湾）民主共和国宪法规定，在未来会按照民主原则由台北领导一个自由统一的中国。这是蒋介石意图要驱赶GCD由国民党来重新统一。希望在不久的将来GCD能自己想办法解决。共产主义是一个会从内部带坏国家的缺陷和腐化系统。这点我们已经从香港人身上看到了并且也看到他们在采取行动。当时（国民党起草宪法）从中国的立场上讲人权和个人自由是有一定进步的，重新统一对台湾来说或许可以是个有意义的建议。那时，我们很乐意帮助你们进步。
2&据我所知的台湾关系法案是有说&一旦中国攻击台湾美军是要武力介入的&。该法案还说&美方会保证提供足够的国防物品和服务使台湾拥有足够的自保能力&。
3&美国在越南英勇战斗。不幸的是我们输了那场战争，越南因此变得更糟。暗示美国&啥也没做&不过是又一次可怜的曲解事实。再次，我已经说了美国是到尼克松这一任还是承认台北而不是北京的。说国民党害怕中共简直是想当然的胡说八道。
4&说美国&抛弃&越南是可悲的歪曲。美国在越南英勇战斗到失败。正因如此越南变成了更加糟糕的地方。说美国&抛弃&越南是对我们国家那些为了自由勇敢献身的男人女人们的侮辱。
Jay Majumdar &December 3 at 9:45pm&&+3
William Chak I'd figure that those genes the japanese left among yourancestors, would have lent you some smarts to google claims China has made overan entire state in India . Let me do you a 'chinese'; and COPY/PASTE the linkfor you --/2014/07/new-chinese-map-claims-arunachal-pradesh-provokes-india/
William Chak我猜这些日本基因是你的祖先传给你的，你能花点你的聪明才智去看看谷歌宣称中国已经占领整个印度不。让我给你当一下&中国人&复制粘贴这个链接给你
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 3 at 10:02pm&&+1
Jay, first of, I have no Japanese genes in me. You and your family had becomesmarter since you were colonialized by the brits, otherwise india would neverhad an official language, you would never learnt how to eat with properutensils and table manners. I am not interested to waste my precious time toread your propaganda bull crap.
Jay，首先呢，我没有日本基因。被英国殖民过你和你的家人总算变聪明点了，否则印度永远不会有一种官方语言，你永远也不会学到如何适当使用器具和餐桌礼仪。我不想浪费我宝贵的时间来阅读你宣传的那些废话。
Craig Warrington &Cabrini & December 4 at 12:02am&&+3
William Chak Let's make this plan and simple if a mainland Chinese person wantsto visit Taiwan they need to get a visa.......if they want to go to Shanghaithey don't need a visa..............same or different?
William Chak我们来举个简单例子，如果一个中国大陆人要去台湾旅游，他得弄个签证&&如果他要去上海就不需要&&一样还是不一样啊？
Mike Chen & University of Washington & December 4 at 12:15am
Okay, why is my post deleted? I haven't called anyone names.
好吧，为什么我的帖子被删了？我没有打任何人的名字。
Lee Law Li &Jobless at Unemployed & December 4 at 12:44am&&+3
taiwan is the province of china according to China but not to taiwan and therest of the world, so how much back and forth argument that Taiwan is chinasprovince, it will be only in the eyes of Mainland China.. soon china willdeclare North Korea and South to be originally part of China
中国说台湾是中国一个省，但台湾和世界其他国家不这样认为，照这样争来吵去的说台湾是中国的省，那不久之后中国会说朝鲜半岛自古也是中国一部分。
Mike Chen &University of Washington & December 4 at 12:47am
Lee Law Li Apparently the &rest of the world& only includes 23countries, with only one European &state& (Vatican). Do you want torevise that statement a bit?
Lee Law Li显然&整个世界&只有23个国家，而欧盟也只算一个国家（梵蒂冈），你要改一下你的发言么？
Mike Chen &University of Washington & December 4 at 12:54am&&+1
Timothy J. Corbitt&
It's stuff like this that makes most mainland Chinese people facepalm, becauseTaiwan is the worst advertisement that you can make for democracy to them. Doesdemocracy mean inactivity? Does it mean government by mob rule? Does it meanpoliticians revealing their ignorance on a regular basis? Ithese things all happen on the island.
Timothy J. Corbitt&台湾绝对是民主最糟的代表了，中国大陆人都会觉得不好意思要捂脸。民主是否意味着无所作为？还是暴民统治？或者意味着政客们可以无限度暴露自己的无知？我可以继续据说下去；这些事情都发生在那个岛上。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 4 at 1:07am&&+1
Mike Chen Again, Mike... Taiwan is a vibrant and active democracy. China is aTotalitarian dictatorship with an incredible level of corruption. The fact thatyou can't recognize this is only a result of your limited world view which hasbeen shaped by Chinese censorship and the dogmatic propaganda which theCommunist party is world famous for. Have you even been to Taiwan? Since it isobvious that you are currently enjoying the benefits of an American educationcomplete with free access to The Internet (as evidenced by your participationon the Huffington Post web site--which I am sure doesn't exist in MainlandChina) why don't you take this opportunity to educate yourself? See what theAmericans think, read a history of the Chinese civil war from the perspectiveof someone other than the Chinese Communist Party. You might be surprised justhow differently the Taiwanese, Americans, French, Canadians, Japanese, Koreansetc...view things. I know it is difficult to accept that everything you've everbeen told is a lie, but dude...
Mike Chen又一次，台湾有一个充满生机和活力的民主。中国则是极其腐败专政的。你看不清楚这点是因为你生活在一个有限制的世界，中共的严苛审查和教条制度世界著名。你去过台湾么？很显然，你正在享受美国教育的好处，自由的使用英特网（显然你正在逛赫芬顿邮报网站&&我相信在中国大陆这不可能存在）你为何不接着这个机会好好学习下？看看美国人的想法，从别人那里了解下中国内战史而不是中共的看法。你可能会惊讶，台湾，美国，法国，加拿大，日本，韩国等对事物的看法是多么地不同。但是伙计，我知道这会非常难以接受，毕竟过去你被告知的一切都是谎言&&
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學&& December 4 at 1:47am&&+2
Mike Chen It seems this post was deleted earlier, so I will say it again. Iwould just like to reiterate that Taiwan is a vibrant and active democracy,while Mainland China is a despotic dictatorship complete with massivemind-numbing nearly incomprehensible governmental corruption and abuses ofhuman rights. Have you ever been to Taiwan? The difference is night and day.The only reason you have a different belief is because you have beencontinually indoctrinated by the dogmatic propaganda which the ChineseCommunist Party is famous for. This is not your fault, but I would encourageyou while you are in America (enjoying the benefits of an American educationand freedom of the press) to look into the issue a little more closely, see whypeople disagree with you, try to see things from a different perspective, reada text book that wasn't published by the gang of 4, find out what theAmericans, the French, the Canadians and yes, even the Taiwanese (whom you so obviouslydistain) have to say about the Chinese Civil War. You might be reallysurprised. I know it is difficult to accept that everything you've ever heardwas a lie...but dude. Curiosity is one of the marks of a true intellectual, sohave the balls to see where other people are coming from.
Mike Chen，早先回复又被删除了，看来我又得回复一遍。
1台湾民主充满生机和活力，中共则极其腐败专政。
2&你被洗脑严重，因为生活在以教条专制著称的中国，这不是你的错，我严重同情你
3&你好不容易到美国，好好享受自由民主吧，关于中国内战别相信中共以前教给你的，学习下美国，法国，加拿大，台湾的民主看法。他们说得才是真理，中共都骗你的。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 4 at 4:17am&&+1
1.3 billion people are happy living in China, that is 1 of 5 person on earth.some of those people including Obama's kid brother, Jackie Chan, Yao Ming arehappily moving back to China. Apparently, Timothy J. Corbitt is living in hiscage, knows nothing about the world, I pity him.
十三亿人很高兴生于中国，那是地球五分之一的人口。这些人包括奥巴马兄弟的娃，成龙，姚明很高兴的搬回中国去了。显然，也有Timothy J. Corbitt这样住在自己天地里的，对世界一无所知，我同情他。
Leo Moran &December 4 at 4:25am
Jon Nichols According to a 43 year old UN resolution (2758), Taiwan is a partof China. Even the United States no longer officially recognizes Taiwan asseparate from China.
Therefore, whether you like it or not, Taiwan is part of China, at leastaccording to the governments of more than 99% of the world's population
Jon Nichols根据一份43年之久的联合国决议（2758），台湾是中国的一部分，即便是美国也不再宣称台湾是从中国独立的。
所以，不管你是否喜欢，台湾是中国的一部分，至少超过世界百分之九九人口的国家政府是认同的。
William Chak &University of Illinois at Chicago & December 4 at 4:27am
Taiwan province, Hong Kong SAR, Macao SAR, one country two systems.
台湾省，香港特别行政区，澳门特别行政区，一国两制
Kelvin Hu & WeihanMiddle School & December 4 at 4:52am
Jon Nichols Officially, Taiwan is Republic Of China.
Jon Nichols，按官方说法台湾是中华共和国
Jay Majumdar & December 4 at 5:21am
Leo Moran First- read Jon's many well detailed and articulate posts here.Second - officially the US also has a treaty to protect Taiwan ifattacked.
the 50 cent army have got a whiff about this article it seems
Leo Moran首先，看一下Jon发在这里的那许多详细清晰的回复，其次&美国官方法案说一旦遭到袭击他们会保护台湾。
这文章看起来就是五毛党在放P
Jay Majumdar &December 4 at 5:47am
Mike Chen freedom means what you are enjoying here. This discussion would beenbanned and a toss into a labor camp would have been the result- if we were tobe discussing this very topic within the walls of china.
Mike Chen你在这里（美国）享受到的 才是真正的自由。如果我们是在中国讨论这个话题，不但会被禁止还会被投进监狱
Alan Miller &English Panel Head at Our lady of fatima girl's school & December 4 at 6:16am
Jon Nichols I am also married to a Taiwanese woman.... for 33 years now andhave lived extensively in both Taiwan and currently Macau. I want Taiwan toremain independent from mainland China, but to be realistic...have met numerousTaiwanese that think reunification is coming. While it is my hope they arewrong...in my opinion having someone like Barack Obama in the WH is not helpingmatters.
Jon Nichols我娶了个台湾老婆&&已经33年了我在台湾住过最近在澳门。我希望台湾从大陆独立，但现实是&&我遇到的台湾人大部分认定将来会统一尽管我希望他们是错的&&在我看来像奥巴马这样的不会帮啥忙的。
Steven King & Works at Saving the world & December 4 at 7:58am
Don't tell that to Communist China lol. ( I lived in Taiwan for 2 years) Taiwanmaps show mainland China belongs to them. But Taiwan is more like old China butricher. It great to see the old culture even with modern touch. I only visitedthe mainland for couple days so I can't compare.
我才不会告诉中共（我在台湾住了两年）台湾地图上显示中国大陆是归他们所有的。台湾更像旧中国但是更富裕。很高兴现在还能看到旧日的文化。当然我只在大陆逛了几天不太好比较。
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學 & December 4 at 8:08am
Jay Majumdar thanks!
Jay Majumdar谢啦
Robert Mele & NorthPort, Florida & December 4 at 8:42am
Jon Nichols They were the Chinese nationalist from the mainland. and had toretreat to the Island of Taiwan , They are of Chinese ancestor'y . The onlydifference is the people of Taiwan are a democratic society and China is aCommunist country , same people different philosophy
Jon Nichols他们是来自大陆的中国国民党，不得不撤退到台湾岛，他们都是有中国血统的。唯一不同的是，台湾是民主社会，中国是共产主义国家，同样的人不同的信仰罢了
Michael T. Babcock & Peterborough, Ontario & December 4 at 12:56pm
Mingjie Chai technically I'd say Taiwan is China, and the rest of the countryis not, but of course, they're a bit outnumbered to make that claim.
Mingjie Chai，从技术讲我承认台湾是中国的，但其他国家不这样看，当然，少数服从多数
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學 & December 4 at 1:45pm
Michael T. Babcock nice! I agree. That is my point.
Michael T. Babcock 点赞。我同意，那也是我的看法。
Mike Chen &University of Washington & December 4 at 2:07pm
Jay Majumdar Get your facts straight: public criticism of the Communists on theinternet won't get you into trouble. How do I know? Because I use Chineseforums every day.
Jay Majumdar你的面对事实：互联网上你对中共的批评不会让你陷入困境。我咋知道的？因为我天天逛中文论坛。
Mike Chen &University of Washington & December 4 at 2:11pm
Jay Majumdar Oh, by the way, the US won't help Taiwan at all when war breaksout along the strait: who'd want to fight a nuclear power at their doorsteps?
Jay Majumdar哦，顺便，台湾海峡开战的话美国不会帮忙的：谁想在家门口尝尝核弹的滋味？
Jon Nichols &Assistant Professor at Shih Chien University實踐大學 & December 4 at 2:15pm
Robert Mele Yes Robert, you are correct for the most part. The name of thecountry is &The Republic of China& many of the people here are as&Chinese& as anyone else. It could even be argued that the Taiwaneseare MORE CHINESE than the Mainlanders (if such a thing is possible) who lostmuch of their culture heritage during the cultural revolution. However, this isan oversimplification, because not all, or even most of the the&Taiwanese& had anything to do with Chiang Kai Shek's&nationalist& KMT. Most of the &Taiwanese& were alreadyhere when the KMT arrived in 1949-50 (about 2 million came with Chiang Ithink). The rest were ethnic Han Chinese who had lived here for manygenerations, but were only nominally concerned with the political turmoil thatwas taking place on the mainland. There is also a significant minority ofpeople here who are Hakka (which is a separate Han ethnicity), or aboriginal.The people who arrived with the KMT and their descendants are the ones here whoare most likely to refer to themselves as &Chinese&. All that being